Source
r/canucks•
bikernaut

What if we had average goaltending from game 1?

DISCUSSION

Canucks fans... We've had a tough year. It's been nasty and not fun a lot of the time. Bright spots are hard to find and players, fans, the coach and FO have been dragged through the mud.

We have seen some terrible performances by players looking completely disinterested. At times the team looks like they don't know what to do next. Our defensive game has been trash at times and deserves a lot of blame for our current state.

Some of us had pretty high hopes for this year's crew, it looked like we had improved what already was a good F crew adding Mikheyev and Kuzmenko.

Our D was much the same, a liability but there was hope that a healthy Dermott and Poolman might be an improvement over Hunt and Burroughs. Bear has been a nice addition and Dermott does look pretty good and improving.

We have Demko though to help shore up the bank end, he was solid as usual last year, ending with a .915 save %, 2.72 GAA. Moneypuck says he was 10.5 goals saved above expected which is about 13th which is around where his SV% puts him. Average, but I always felt he was clutch. Big saves when we needed them.

The year starts and from the beginning we did not see NHL average goaltending from Demko. .883 and 3.93GAA in his 15 games, that puts him about 76th in the NHL. GSAE is -11.2.

Spencer Martin takes over and he's at .880 and 3.76GAA putting him about 78th, GSAE -13.8. Delia is at .895 and 3.41GAA, 60th in the league and has a GSAE at 2.7.

Those are pretty bad numbers and I think they have a massive effect on the players. To their credit, they haven't thrown our goalies under the bus.

If we had average goaltending this year I think we'd be in a comfortable playoff spot. Think about the pressures this has put on the players. Not only do they need to overcome bad goaltending, they get to hear the endless calls to tear it down and rebuild when this could've been a very successful year if we didn't let in soft goals every game.

Add it all up and I can understand how they may feel the futility of it and give less than their best.

Edit: Here are some other neat charts, saves by location relative to league expected.

2021-22 - https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamSingleSaving/2122/VAN/wrap

2022-23 - https://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamSingleSaving/2223/VAN/wrap

Posted Jan 18, 2023, 6:56 AM UTC · edited

028
Semprovictus:sedins2020: •

Can we stop asking this question every 3 days

19
muchtime•

Our abysmal goaltending hasn’t been talked about enough imo. Our D obviously sucks but the goaltending has been arguably just as bad

2†
overthisbynow:Skate: •

What's there to talk about? Demko obviously wasn't 100% from off season surgery and now we're running our backup and an AHL goalie, and people are surprised our goaltending sucks?

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
muchtime•

No one’s surprised, but the goaltending is rarely talked about in relation to our terrible start. We’re currently last in the league in save %

0†
Semprovictus:sedins2020: •

If we had league average goaltender we'd likely still be out of a playoff spot, our goaltending is key right now for team tank.

5
[deleted]•

[removed]

-1
ijekster:Giants: •

This argument is dumb because our goal scoring is super inflated right now too. If we’re accounting for one we should account for the others.

11
bikernautOP•

I don't get it. Scoring more goals causes goalies to play badly? You'd think having the puck in their zone would help out the goalies a bit. Our goals per game went from 3.0 to 3.4 last year to this.

-5
mrtomjones:89: •

No he is saying we are scoring more than we should be based on our shots and where we shoot from. So shooters are playing too well and goalies playing too badly

9
NinCross:umlaut: •

If we had average goaltending this year, I think we'd be in a comfortable playoff spot

...

Shakes head, closes Reddit.

9
SpectreFire•

We had Vezina level goaltending last year and still missed the playoffs.

In what universe does a Canucks team, with average goaltending, a much worse defense group, and a worse bottom-six, end up performing better?!

3
HogwartsXpress36•

And forwards were actually playing some defense last year. They completely abandoned it this year for goal scoring

2
SpectreFire•

I mean, yeah.

Miller got us bag and has given up entirely.

Horvat wants to get his bag, so he's dropped all sense of defensive play to go on a goal scoring binge,

4
EvrcrCPA•

Why do both Delia and Martin, the AHL goalies have winning records? If demko wasn’t so f’ing shit this year, it would have been very different

-1
Young2k04:6: •

It’s always what if this or what if that. Our team sucks, period.

1
elrizzy:UticaThird: •

If we had average goaltending this year I think we'd be in a comfortable playoff spot.

We need to stop getting into this idea that we can blame our struggles on on person or position. We have one of the most porous bluelines in the NHL. Our goaltending hasn't been up to snuff. Multiple forwards have taken a step back. The coaching doesn't really fit the team. We have cap issues.

Just fixing one of these doesn't fix it all.

4
bikernautOP•

We were a top 10 team (over the second half) that added a fair bit of scoring and improved the bottom 6. If the wheels didn't come off the goaltending, I think the other problems become more manageable.

Pro sports are all about the little things that end up making big differences.

Seeing how Halak is playing this year, too bad we didn't keep him. (I know he was mostly terrible last year, but he has had the workload in the past.

0
HogwartsXpress36•

What if we didn't have

A shit owner Shit management Shit coaching Shit defense Shit backchecking forwards

I think we would comfortably be in a playoff spot

4
MrGraaavy•

It's one of many issues, which is why you're getting pushback.

What if we had a league average PK instead of the worst in the league?

What if our defense didn't feature Stillman and OEL?

What if our highest paid player played some fucking defense?

and so on, and so on.....

3
FinishTemporary9246•

But we talk about issues on this sub, so why can't we talk about goaltending issues?

1
MrGraaavy•

Feel free to talk goaltending issues, but maybe do it in a more productive (nuanced) way.

How to fix our goaltending.

Why our goaltending is suffering.

Etc.

But when OP frames the topic as

“ If we had average goaltending this year I think we'd be in a comfortable playoff spot.”

it comes across as disingenuous when we have a glut of issues that are holding us back.

2
FinishTemporary9246•

I think you can safely say our goaltenders sucking is a reason why they suck. And it is harming the team. Delia wasn't even good enough to stick around in Chicago.

A way to fix our goaltending is to have better keepers.

1
EvrcrCPA•

Delia and Martin both have a winning record - and look at demkos record. If we had an average level of performance from demko, we wouldn’t be in this shit show.

2
Jonny5H•

Save % is useless when your goalie is getting shelled every night, and the publicly available advanced stats don't do a good job of capturing what has happened immediately proceeding a shot (cross seam passes, whether they have just had to make a save and is scrambling etc.), which makes a goalie look much worse on the stats if they are constantly getting exposed. Thinking the goalie is the reason we're not a playoff team is really dumb

2
thundermantundraboy:23: •

On Canucks Talk recently they were hinting that private analytics have Vancouver as a bottom 3 defensive team, and even worst on specific metric such as rush chances allowed. This lines up with the eye test (how many 2-1s and breakaways we give up) and partially explains why our SV% is league worst (coupled with the fact that we are running 2 backups right now).

2
Late_Smile_3666:OrcaA: •

Damn, I really thought that we had left the whole “If only we had average goaltending, then we’d be in the playoffs!” behind us.

Anybody who has watched a Canucks game this year has seen the shit this defensive core pulls nightly, leaving backdoor passed wide open, abandoning Steven fucking Stamkos in the slot on the power play, and giving up odd man rush after odd man rush.

We have league average goaltending. If Demko had given league average at the beginning of the year wed be in the same exact spot, chasing that 15th overall pick, and thats if we were lucky

No, goaltending isnt and has never been the problem. Its the defense.

1
bikernautOP•

Nobody even discussed goaltending from what I saw.

I watch pretty much every game. I agree this team isn't good defensively, however the biggest change to last year to this is that we have terrible goaltending. Don't forget, once Bruce took we played at a top 10 pace.

What we have is not league average, it is really bad. Save % and GSAE prove it.

I would LOVE to see better defensive play, don't get me wrong, but this season should have played out better.

2
Cisco9:sedins2020: •

Demko in top form is quite a bit above average. Friedman and others before the season started were predicting he would win the Vezina in '23.

His stellar play for the past couple of years has made us look better than we are.

When he played badly this year as did his replacements, it exposed just how defensively terrible this team really is.

That's the 22-23 Canuck's season in a nutshell.

3