Why do people seem to hate Doom 2's map 21 (Nirvana)? It was always one of my favorite maps.
Posted Jan 19, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC
2221
Doom 2 was developed and released on a very tight timeline, and as a result some maps were rushed more than others (and the MAP30 boss was a broken, unfun mess).
MAP21 definitely could have used more time in the oven, it looks and feels like an unfinished collection of room ideas stapled together with teleporters. The large room with the slime and rock platform elevators is particularly butt ugly, and you can just walk through one of the skull key barriers blocking the exit.
It feels like a speedmap and I wouldn't be surprised if Sandy banged it out in a few hours of mapping.
7
Eh, they did made him make 18 maps so I can't really blame the guy.
Though let's be honest, Nirvana isn't nearly as bad as MAP13 Downtown with it's fucking arrow pointing at where the player should go, key hunts and overall size.
Seriously, Doom 2's city maps just have a shape of a city. The only Doom 2 map I can think of that legit looks like a town is the one from Plutonia of all things.
4
Nirvana isn't a terrible map to play through (its short and doesn't have any frustrating gimmicks), but IMO it might be the least "developed" map, almost like they had to replace a map at the last minute and make, debug and test it in a day.
I don't blame Sandy at all, 18 commercial maps in 9 months using 1994 mapping tools and computing power (for BSP compiling) is a tall order.
And yeah, Downtown is more fleshed out as a concept and place, but going through that building with the elevator like 20 times to explore everything is not fun at all.
2
I just don't like most of doom 2s map design.
3
This is unrelated but there is a theory that it was named after the band Nirvana + the game was released in the same year one of the members of the band killed himslef with a double barrel shotgun + at the very beggining of the level there is a super shotgun
3
Very very sus...
1
I don’t love the lighting or the combat. It feels a little hacked together
1
Agreed. It's a great map. Civvie and Decino are full of shit (not generally, just about this map)
1
Thought Decino said he didn't mind it too much.
1
Nah, he rags on it a fair bit.
1
It doesn't look very good, doesn't feel very cohesive, but Sandy was going for something abstract and I think in that respect it did what it set out to do. I'm not a huge fan of the gameplay of it, but it's still better than the worst levels of TNT Evilution I think.
1
Weird how people have different likes and dislikes.
0†
there's a difference between "some people don't care for it" and "like 80% of the community unanimously hates it"
3
My point still remains
-1
Your point of being snarky about OP's title saying "why do people seem to hate," instead of "why does the consensus of total opinions generally seem to trend towards disliking.."?
Because if that's not it, I'm not sure what it was, at least as far as contributing anything
"I don't know, CAN you?" lookin ass
2
It's almost like this is a dumb response to a dumb top level post
-2
It's teleporter heavy and, of course, there's that one room where you get surrounded by Imps and two Pain Elementals, which is not cool.
Frankly my favorite part is the Shotgunner merry go-around room where you then get ambushed by Revenants.
It's intense! It's really a butt-clencher, as are any situations where you get ambushed by these boners. It's a real pain the ass, leaves you sore and tired I tell you what!
Civvie moment