Source
r/Xenoblade_Chronicles•
bethevoid

I really didn't like XC2, but especially compared to XC:DE

Xenoblade 2 SPOILERS

After 110 hours in this game, I really, really don't like it. But especially when compared to XC:DE. No offense at all to anyone who loves this game, because I know a lot of people do, but holy crap this game is maddening for so many different reasons. I would absolutely have put this game down and never picked it back up if I weren't trying to complete it before playing XC3. I wanted to type out a rant that maxed out the reddit character limit, but I just don't have the energy, so instead I'll just drop a couple of my biggest complaints:

  • I hate the combat. Yes, I know how it works. I have every unique blade available before NG+, I understand the special system and how to cancel attacks and perform combos. You end up playing super easy quicktime events for half of every battle, and fights last so damn long even with pouch items and accessories and OP blades. The combat isn't actually challenging, I usually tried to stay the same level as the enemies in the zone and I never had difficulty with the fights, even though I just stuck with the original 3 drivers the entire time. The lack of difficulty just makes the combat even more boring - and no I'm not playing on easy mode.
  • So many slow, unnecessary cutscenes that add nothing. And on top of that, lots of bad voice acting. They probably could have cut at least a couple hours of pointless cutscene moments.
  • Side quests are barely improved in any way compared to XC:DE, they're almost all just MMO fodder. I did a bunch of the unique blade missions but found the writing super underwhelming, although that's subjective of course.
  • The mercenary mission system is so annoying, but not as annoying as blade field skills. Having to constantly go into a slow menu and reassign blades, then listen to their slow annoying voicelines for the millionth time, all for rewards that are worthless 90% of the time is just terrible design. The loot in general is just worthless if you have all the unique blades.
  • Picking up items in the overworld is so slow compared to XC:DE, and again you have to listen to the same voicelines almost every time. But luckily there's almost no reason to do this at all unless you're trying to be a completionist.
  • Between the boring quests and pointless loot there is no real incentive to explore the open zones. Admittedly this is largely true of XC:DE too.
  • Very subjective, but the story is nowhere near as compelling as XC:DE. So many tropes, and I just didn't find the overarching story nearly as gripping. The characters are also much, much less interesting and likable than Shulk, Fiora, Reyn, and Dunban. And there are a ton of moments that just don't make sense but are thrown in for "epic sacrifice" narrative moments, like >!Jin having to kill Amalthus for Rex and Pneuma, even though they're way stronger than Jin!<

All in all this game was a massive slog for me after the 60 - 70 hour mark, while XC:DE is one of my favorite games of all time. I'm really hoping XC3 is better or I'll probably drop the series altogether, which is something I never would have expected to say after beating XC:DE. And I know this will be downvoted because some people love XC2 so much - but I had to post here because I don't know anyone else that has ever played these games.

Posted Jan 31, 2023, 5:17 AM UTC · edited

036
Jack313•

Sheesh this is why im glad i don't care about what others think and just play whatever i want cuz the people on the Switch subreddit kept hating on XC2 too but i still got it and now its my favorite switch game.

13
Tori0404:Taion_Chibi:•

People compare it too much to 1 honestly when both Games try to be very different

6
bethevoidOP•

I’d argue that comparing a sequel to the original is totally fair. I mean they literally called it Xenoblade Chronicles 2. It would be like if God of War Ragnarok came out and was extremely different than God of War 2018.

-1
Tori0404:nia:•

The reason it‘s called Xenoblade 2 is because it’s a story-based JRPG. That‘s why X isn‘t a part of the mainline series. Because it doesn’t really focus that much on the story

1
bethevoidOP•

So we’re really saying it’s not fair to compare a game to its sequel? I feel like people will make any leap of logic to defend this game 🤦

2
bethevoidOP•

I’m glad you love it! I wasn’t expecting people who hadn’t played XC2 to read my post, so hopefully it doesn’t dissuade anyone from trying the game.

5
Tori0404:Taion_Chibi:•

That‘s what Dunkey Fans already do, so don‘t worry

2
UninformedPleb:brighid:•

I hate the combat. Yes, I know how it works... fights last so damn long

Dare I say you don't know how the combat works, then. Because if you did, fights would be over quickly.

The combat isn't actually challenging

It's not really supposed to be.

I usually tried to stay the same level as the enemies

Oh, there's your problem. Just frickin' level up already. You'll curbstomp the enemies, as Takahashi intended. It's not supposed to be some kind of tryhard challenge. It's a story-driven game. Combat is just for show.

So many slow, unnecessary cutscenes that add nothing.

Because you're so focused on cardboard-cutout combat mechanics, you're missing the story. Got it.

lots of bad voice acting

There's not. There's a little, but even then, most of the problem is editing. And there's not even that much bad editing. This is getting into "people told me what to think" territory here.

Side quests are barely improved in any way compared to XC:DE

This is laughably incorrect. There are barely a handful in the early chapters of XC2 that are "go collect blah blah blah" like nearly all of XC1's are. If you've missed the sidequests that have plot (and the longer blade quests), then you're actively avoiding sidequests. Given your "I'm staying at the same level as the enemies" comments, I don't find that surprising.

The mercenary mission system is so annoying, but not as annoying as blade field skills.

Okay... a bit non-sequitur, but whatever...

Having to constantly go into a slow menu and reassign blades, then listen to their slow annoying voicelines for the millionth time, all for rewards that are worthless 90% of the time is just terrible design.

The menus aren't that slow. And most merc missions last 20-30 minutes, unless you're bogged down in the horribleness of Ursula's blade quest. And you can skip their voice lines just by jamming on the A-button. Unless, of course, you've neglected to update the game since launch, in which case you have a ton of other QOL issues as well, and the fix is very simple: update the game.

The loot in general is just worthless if you have all the unique blades.

Some is, some isn't. Core chips are good loot, and some of them are downright critical to certain builds. Such as Gold Chips for farming, or the chips dropped by various superbosses for endgame/postgame stuff... But, generally, merc missions are good for one thing only: shop deed unlocks. Those give you various upgrades (pickup distance, running speed, inventory space, etc.) that are well worth the time it takes to send a few common blades out for a merc mission.

Picking up items in the overworld is so slow compared to XC:DE, and again you have to listen to the same voicelines almost every time. But luckily there's almost no reason to do this at all unless you're trying to be a completionist.

Again, jamming the A-button shortens this process by a lot (if you're running a post-launch version). And there's plenty of reason to pick up collectables for several recipes that advance Pyra's, Vess's, Gorg's, Vale's, Crossette's, and others' affinity chart progress. And blade affinity charts are the number one way of getting stronger and making combat go faster. (Or did you not know that, and you're still diddling around in the endgame with less-than-A-tier blades?)

Between the boring quests and pointless loot there is no real incentive to explore the open zones. Admittedly this is largely true of XC:DE too.

There's tons of little secrets and stuff scattered around. Far more than in XC:DE, and some of it is really good, especially if you can find a way to get to it early. Like those core chips in Temperantia that are guarded by level 80-something Jagrons (and a UM Jagron)... totally worth it in chapter 5 or 6 when you first get to Temperantia. Of course, once you've farmed your way to L99, you don't need them anymore. But it's a reward for those that explore and try to sequence-break.

The characters are also much, much less interesting and likable than Shulk, Fiora, Reyn, and Dunban.

To each his own, but all I'm hearing is "blah blah blah cardboard cutouts #1, 2, 3, and 4". If you had said Melia, then maybe. But XC1's NPC's are far more interesting than the main party. XC2 has such a huge party with huge variety, and they're all at least as well written as Fiora (not a high bar to cross, admittedly). But, again, to each his own. This one is entirely subjective.

XC3 is more like XC2 than XC1. It has a fast, non-clunky combat system, tons of cutscenes (and if you thought XC2's were slow, that won't change for XC3), sidequests that are made like XC2's, and while the voice acting is good, the editing is still kinda shoddy and the variety of voice lines is severely limited. Get ready to hear about MVP's (you were all thinking it) and girls with gall a lot. Also, loot is still mostly pointless (with a few non-pointless things here and there, much like XC2), and exploration is structured about like XC2 also. Oh, and the story has so many missing pieces that you're going to forget all about the minor contrivances in XC2. XC3 is just straight up an incomplete narrative, and zero fucks are given. At one point, a main plot-driving character simply tells you "nope, I don't have any clue what you should do next", and so your party has to ass-pull something they heard recently to move on to the next area of the game. And don't get me started on "it amuses me".

TL;DR: It sounds like you dislike XC2 because it's not XC1, and you'll probably struggle to like XC3 for the same reason.

12
bethevoidOP•

I appreciate you reading my post and taking the time to respond, but this is exactly the type of response I expected from someone who’s angry that I didn’t like a game they loved. A lot of your response boils down to “the bad design is intentional” and “your subjective opinions are wrong” 🤷

The story isn’t complicated to understand, and a lot of cutscenes tell important aspects of the story, but a lot don’t and should’ve been cut IMO. And sure you can spend time making your party stronger to get through the non-challenging and unfun combat as quickly as possible, but I think that’s just straight up bad design.

Yes you can mash buttons to skip some of the voice lines, but only in certain situations, and you always have to listen to the first one. Side quests do have story attached, but so did the XC:DE side quests, and I just don’t find these stories compelling at all. Like building Umon’s new boat, or finding out who is spying on the girl in Indol, these aren’t interesting stories at all in my opinion.

I think your criticisms of XC3 are interesting though, and help to ground my expectations before I start playing it

10
UninformedPleb:brighid:•

I specifically avoided subjective stuff on purpose. And in the one place where I touched on it (because the topic was an entirely subjective aspect of the game), I called it out as such.

My criticisms weren't driven by anger at all. But I won't hold back in pointing out where you're just not as good at the game (or at understanding how it works) as you seem to think you are. Quite a lot of your issues with the game seem to be surface-level, and aren't based on a deep knowledge of the game.

And the things I mentioned about XC3 are the things I thought would probably bother you the most because of the hang-ups you've had with XC2. I'd be curious to see if you like XC3, because I honestly think you'll have the same problems with it as you have with XC2.

-1†
bethevoidOP•

Okay then, what am I missing about the combat? Besides being explained poorly and having confusing stats like auto attack, nothing is that complicated about it - I just don’t like it and think it’s too slow, especially when battling the unique enemies. Or are you just saying I’m supposed to grind way above the enemy’s level to get it over ASAP? Near the very end I eventually just used my bonus levels at an inn and ran past everything I could for the rest of the game.

6
Satan_Prometheus•

One thing I've noticed about this game is that everyone seems to have a different subjective opinion about how long is 'too long' for combat. Some people seem to be mad that they can't one-shot everyone below their level, while other people are OK with having every battle last 10+ minutes.

It's also tricky to diagnose exactly what might have been slowing you down without knowing exactly what your setup was, because of just how many factors actually influence combat speed and damage. (And tbh the fact that the game doesn't explain a lot of this stuff to you is the game's fault, not yours.)

3
UninformedPleb:brighid:•

The tutorials are bad, yes. And, yes, the auto-attack stat is just the attack stat.

But if you're struggling to make fights end quickly, you're probably doing something wrong. I was suuuuuuuper nervous about fighting some of the superbosses the first time. I mopped the floor with them all in less than 2 minutes each. And since they're superbosses, you can't be overleveled for them. I can't think of even one story boss fight that took longer than a couple of minutes at the most. And the trash mobs should be under 10 seconds most of the time, even in groups.

What I think is probably slowing you down is your character progression. If you're not picking up items, you're not finishing affinity chart nodes for your blades. (Lots of blades have chart nodes based on item pickups.) And if your blades aren't finishing affinity chart nodes, their Strength stat isn't growing. If combat is slow because of low strength, then you aren't getting much Trust. And if your blades aren't getting Trust, they aren't getting tier-upgrades. And those tier upgrades cause other stat growth (like auto-attack, ether, block, etc.), and all of this is making your blades underpowered and battles are taking way too long. So now you think the combat is slow, but really, it's because you're ignoring a part of the game that indirectly drives stat growth.

Now, is that a bad design? Maybe, but I see why they did it. Everything is about "affinity" in Xenoblade games. XC2 doesn't have NPC affinities to track, but blades have affinity to their environment, and there's even canon lore explaining why. Tying blade data-gathering to their stat growth is actually kinda genius in how it ties lore to gameplay. The downside is that it forces players to run around and collect mountains of random crap in order to get stat growth.

Then again, Colony 6 progress gates off some of the skill trees in XC1, so it's not the first time this has happened. And XC3 has you collecting metal shards to upgrade weapons in the back half of the game, so it's already happened again.

2
KaeRuAnkou•

I loved XC2, but there are certainly a lot of valid criticisms you can make(though every game in the series has them).

While I do think XC3 will be more up your alley, be prepared for more long cutscenes that are dialogue heavy. I don't say this to tell you that they are a slog or pointless or anything. They are filled with relevance to the overall plot and themes of the game, as well as some superb characterization, and I loved every bit of it. But I've seen people say verbatim what you said about XC2's cutscenes in regards to XC3.

Hope you'll go in with an open mind, at least.

11
bethevoidOP•

I'll definitely keep an open mind. I was concerned about XC2 because I'd heard about how much "more anime" it was than XC:DE, but I was actually loving XC2 at the beginning. I especially liked the world design, starting in Argentum was awesome, and the title screen theme is so mystical. The cloud sea is also such a cool concept. My opinion didn't start to turn that negative until well after the 30 hour mark. I never minded the long cutscenes in XC:DE because I enjoyed the characters so much, and most of the cutscenes felt like they were revealing core plot info - but I really didn't feel that way with XC2.

2
jl05118•

You didn't feel that way about XC2, because the story wasn't interesting for you. I don't think there's much to criticize about your points, most of it is either legit flaws or personal preferences, but I find very few cutscenes in 2 (putting aside h2h and sidequests) that don't have a purpose in the narrative. Whether for the plot, worldbuilding or characterization. Maybe some could be cut on the grounds of overexplanation. But XC3 has around 13-14h of cutscenes, just like 2.

7
Tori0404:Taion_Chibi:•

2 is one of those Games where I think another Playtrough is necessary to appreciate the writing a lot more. I remember not getting so many things on my first run

2
Lvl_5_Dino:morag:•

Seems like people either really love or really hate the combat, I adore it and all its facets personally.

6
Robottsie:Lanz_Chibi:•

I think you'll like 3, basically all of the problems you mentioned either don't exist in 3 or are way better like field skills are gone and you can pick up items without stopping like in DE. The voice acting is SO much better, and side quests are definitely the best in the main series, like there are whole character arcs in these and action scenes.

Like the only problem that's still around that you mentioned is that the game can be too easy because the game showers you with ways to get XP, I recommend just not using bonus XP at all, if you ever need to level up play side quests because they're super good.

The story is a bit subjective but from what I've seen a lot of people who liked 1's story more like 3's more than 2's and some even like it more than 1's.

4
bethevoidOP•

Ahhh this is fantastic to hear. I bought XC3 and the DLC season pass the day it was released, even though I'm pretty sure I hadn't even beaten XC:DE yet. Or maybe I had beaten XC:DE but hadn't started XC2 yet. I've been waiting a long time to play it, and I've heard a lot of good things about it, so I've just been pushing myself to finish XC2. I know a lot of people adored XC2 and I wonder if I would have liked it more if I hadn't played XC:DE first.

6
NotYourHeroTV•

If you play xenoblade for the story then you won't be liking xenoblade 3 it's really bad and slow. Only chapter 5 is somewhat note worthy

0
DreamCereal7026•

At this point it's really hard to believe that XC2 is loved lol.

2†
CookieTheParrot•

It is for the most part liked by players, but there are quite a few players with personal rivalries with the the game. For comparison, the only time I have ever seen someone call the first Xenoblade game bad was once or twice on r/Xenosaga and once on r/XenoGears since even those most critical of it tend to think of it was mediocre or decent overall at worst.

Xenoblade 2 is a much more polarising game, on the contrary, out of all Xenoblade games, perhaps even all Xeno games. Criticising and scrutinising it is nowhere near as common næw as it was in 2017–2018, however.

Generally a liked game, but certainly has its vocal critics.

1
DreamCereal7026•

Xc2 is one of those that's is loved but hated at the same time, it's really hard to understand what it is. I've seen more people dislike or hate XC2 than loving it but on my perspective though.

1
Satan_Prometheus•

I think that perception comes from the fact that most of us who love XC2 love it despite its glaring flaws. I could easily hit the reddit character limit typing out a huge, in-depth list of all of its problems and why they're so egregious, despite the fact that it's one of my favorite games of all time.

I think the fact that even big fans will be really harsh about certain aspects of it creates the impression that it's generally disliked, when that's not actually the case.

3
lazyking707•

Yeah out of the blade series 2 is the weakest for me as well 3 is good its pretty much a mix of the best parts of 1 and 2 with excellent side mission like unironically good. Although let me recommend xenobalde x its my favorite game of all time.

2
Ok-Ambition-9432•

I agree with all of your points, except I still really like the game. My least favorite XBC game, but still vy far better than most JRPGs.

2
kalarro•

Love xb2, my favourite switch game ever. Wasn't able to finish DE, altho I liked it, but git draggy

1
BehemothJackal•

If combat takes too long for you, scale the difficulty down. It reduces enemy HP.

1
neon171•

funny how something released so many years ago, can still be so divisive, you would think after all this time people would calm down but no... this comment of mine is not directed at you OP

the first xenoblade for many years was my favorite RPG, I played the X and liked it for what it was but it is not a game I would play again, I was reluctant to play the 2 for months because of so much hate I saw about the game, but I tried to play with an open mind and every chapter the game was surprising me and in the end (no need to make it) it became my favorite JRPG of all time

I saw people commenting and I don't know how true this is, but the idea of xenoblade 2 was to make a modernized version of the JRPGs from the golden age era, and as someone who has been playing japanese games for decades, I would say they got it right! I could rebut all your points, but it's in vain, you feel the way you feel and nothing I or anyone else says will change that, art is subjective and video games are no different, but if you can take this as an advice, don't waste so much time on something you don't like! spending over 100 hours on something you didn't like seems like torture to me.

1
bethevoidOP•

One point of correction, I didn’t spend 100 hours disliking the game. I mentioned in my post that the game was only a slog after the 70ish hour mark. I also mentioned in a comment that I was really enjoying the first 30ish hours. There’s no way I would have played for 110 hours if I hated it from the start. After playing for 70 hours and starting to really dislike the game, I still felt obligated to finish the story before starting the third game. I’m glad I finished the story despite disliking a lot of the mechanics.

1
Alieze:nia:•

Yeah, you'll definitely love XC3.

0
bethevoidOP•

I'm super stoked to play it now. It's shocking how different the writing is between XC:DE and XC2 - although I'm not sure if maybe they tweaked some stuff in XC:DE compared to the original XC1. It's kind of crazy in general how similar XC:DE and XC2 are in many ways - yet they're also so wildly different.

2
EdgarAllanKenpo•

The combat is very similar with XB2 and XB3 so if the combat wasn't up your alley it might not get better for the sequel.

Hope you like it though.

2