Isildur’s “claim” to the Ring, like Bilbo and Gollum’s.

I was re-reading FoTR yesterday and when I got to the talk in Ch.2, at the part where they were discussing the similarities of Bilbo and Gollum’s lies, how one had “won it” and the other had it given to him as a “birthday present”, Gandalf told to Frodo that it was clear to him that they were each defending their claim to the Ring. And then suddenly it dawned to me:

What hand save Sauron’s ever held this thing, ere it was lost? The hand of Isildur alone.

I was aware of Isildur’s remark on the Ring as being “precious to him”, like the other Ring-bearers, but I had never realized that his claiming of it “as weregild” was also similar to the others’. Isildur, too, wanted to put his right to the Ring beyond doubt, as soon as he got ahold of that thing. The effect of the Ring upon all of them was instantaneous.

(The part of me realizing this parallel, or connection, kinda made me feel like I was Gandalf for a little while; trying to find a link between the Ring of the Enemy and the halfling’s ring, lol)

Posted Feb 19, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

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swazal•

We don’t get weregild until Elrond’s say, and Boromir reveals he never heard the story, though doubtless both Denethor and Faramir did.

“But for the moment, since most of all you need to know how this thing came to you, and that will be tale enough, this is all that I will say. It was Gil-galad, Elven-king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron, though they themselves perished in the deed; and Isildur Elendil’s son cut the Ring from Sauron’s hand and took it for his own.”

Jackson’s rendition of Isildur here was superlative.

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DarrenGreyMODNowt but a ninnyhammer•

Comment chain removed. No adaptation discussion here.

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ThoDanII•

Except he had the right of weregild and the right of the spoils of war going to the victor would be enough

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Snowdovely•

It was Smeagol's birthday too.

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mightylemondrops•

Good points all 'round, can't argue with that.

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ScottyMcScot•

That's not fair. Deagol had already given him a present "more than I could afford".

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Drummk•

Yeah, while Isildur should have destroyed the Ring, it's hard to argue that he didn't have a legitimate claim to it.

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HilariusAndFelix•

I don't think you usually get weregilds for people who died in warfare though.

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sigzero•

wergild, also spelled Wergeld, or Weregild, (Old English: “man payment”), in ancient Germanic law, the amount of compensation paid by a person committing an offense to the injured party or, in case of death, to his family.

Sauron killed his father, so yeah he could claim it as a weregild and certainly the ring would feed that thought.

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HilariusAndFelix•

Death in warfare is normally regarded differently from murder (intentional or accidental) which is what weregild to the family would be for.

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csrster•

I think Corey Olsen was the first to point out that the Ring isn't weregild at all. Weregild is something you take by agreement in settlement of the "debt" incurred by a killing _instead_ of taking blood-vengeance. Elendil's death has already been avenged - Sauron is, as far as Islidur understands it, dead - so why does Isilidur need a weregild?

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vzoadao•

Interestingly (to me), I was watching a podcast about substance addiction recently and the speakers started discussing the phenomena of heavily addicted drug users compulsively lying about things which didn't matter. like lying about what they'd eaten for breakfast or which way they had walked home etc. I've been thinking about it so much since hearing that, and the Ring is such an elegant symbol of addiction, it's just that much more amazing that Tolkien had the insight to color ring possession with some essence of that compulsive lying. Really comprehensive, finely attuned awareness of the dynamics of addiction throughout the series. Truly wise, insightful writing.

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Bruc3w4yn3•

Congratulations on getting the connection by yourself! I don't know how many read-throughs I would've needed to catch it, but I heard about this connection in one of Corey Olsen's classes.

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csrster•

Yes, it was in one of the Council of Elrond sessions I think. And he pointed out how dubious the weregild argument actually was.

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