[S20 SPOILERS] Another Veil theory: OXA edition

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There have been a good few Veil theory posts recently, which is great! This post has been planned and mostly ready since the time of this post, which relates to this Aztecross lore video. TL;DW of the video is that the Veil is OXA. I didn't draw quite that strong a connection, but I've had a hunch there is one and I'll analyze this here.

What is OXA?

Umun'arath gave us the full name: Odyle Xenotaph Anarchive, sometimes abbreviated as OXTA, immediately raising some eyebrows. We'll get to that later. Having seen the full acronym initially when the LF CE lore was first disseminated, I instantly picked up the meaning of xenotaph contextually (it's also a Greek-origin word which made it easier) so I didn't put much though on what the name tells us, but I'll go over it here.

Odyle is a reference to the Odic force, a pseudoscientific vitalist concept of life force produced by bioelectricity related to hypnosis, so in Destiny terms we can say that it is an alternative word for psychic. Xenotaph has been easily identified as related to cenotaph, lit. empty grave (essentially a Tomb of the Unknown Soldier), but using xeno instead, so it can be interpreted as "alien grave" or more simply grave(s) of species lost. "Anarchive" is a nuanced concept, but from what I'm reading, it is interpretation of archival data for feeding future processes. So in conclusion, OXA is a psychic machine that archives data from doomed civilizations and in interpreting it, can see the future.

#History of OXA and related systems

Otzot rebuilt the OXA after the Cabal destroyed it, at which point the machine and its use was sanctioned by Calus. This seems to be a pattern of cosmic history, the Psion Match suggested this happens "eternally". If that is the case, OXA cannot be the Veil, not unless we are missing much more of its history than we think. Furthermore, the Veil is paracausal, if the Witness did not want to destroy it, then what would, and what could even be capable of it? Doesn't seem likely that the Cabal could, at least.

That doesn't mean the two concepts are necessarily unrelated though.

Additionally on OXA:

  • The definition, history and known capabilities of the OXA means it isn't a singular "thing", but a pattern. It's a "xenotaph": a species creates or writes in the OXA, dies, and is in turn "entombed" in it.

Here's an example of what in my opinion is a bootleg OXA: the World's Grave!

He called Savathûn to meet in the material world. She told him that the Vex worked tirelessly to understand everything, so that they could build a victory condition for every possible end state of the universe.

“Then I must be a better king,” Oryx said. “If they want to build an emperor for all outcomes, then I will be the king of only one. I will follow the Deep wherever it goes, and document its power. Let us create a catalog of the grave of worlds, which will be our map to victory.”

The World's Grave is a singularity supercomputer that is a library of the worlds the Hive have conquered in their crusade. I'm fairly sure it's not the just the single installation on Luna, but instead something they generally build, I suspect the Dreadnaught also has one. But doesn't the name and purpose of the World's Grave give it a a vibe similar to the OXA? At the same time, the literally monumental volume of data in the OXA may also suggest it functions with a black hole computer, as these keep cropping up in lore again and again (see TTP/Hidden Dossier). Their archival data certainly is all but identical as the memories of extinguished species, and Oryx intended for it to be their "map to victory", the map to the Final Shape, and as such a portent of the inevitable future.

  • As OXTA, the immediate conjecture on many of our minds was that it has something to do with Taox. Regardless of if you think Taox lives or not -- it doesn't matter here -- the OXTA can absolutely connect to Taox in a simple manner: through the Ecumene. They received intelligence about the Hive directly from her, some of which we know exists in the OXA. This information however, an unknown amount of time later, was perused by none other than Quria thanks to an "Ecumene gate". How did that come to pass? Well, a "black box for galactic civilizations" sounds like a good guess.

  • Odyle is what relates the acronym to psionics in the context of Destiny, but it has its roots as a concept in bioelectricity/magnetism and more. Reading u/lettucedifferent5104 's post on Strand as it relates to magnetic phenomena makes me think that the OXA could be, like the CloudArk, another, technological application of Strand or a mimesis. Perhaps all psionics in the Destiny universe (which Strand is a part of to a degree) are Odic in nature.

  • Lastly, the OXA is traditionally associated with Psions. For a variety of reasons, including it simply not existing or being unavailable otherwise, Psions often seem drawn to Vex installations: Kargen, the Technocrat through who we see a connection between a Sundaresh branch and OXA; Ixel, the Far Reaching; even the Flayer sisters that sought to use the Sundial. They're trying to replicate what they could do with the OXA. Having mentioned Sundaresh, note how similar in format Ixel's predictions are to those of the FWC Device. The Device and OXA both seem to be maddening to use as well.

So now let's look at the CloudArk, what the Veil does for it and how it all ties together.

What is the Veil and what does it have to do with all this?

We'll get there in time.

The Veil is stated in the Strand lore book to be an artifact of Darkness. The Veil produces Strand as a "paracausal byproduct", corroborated also by Osiris in the campaign.

Through parts of Neomuna there are turbines of various sizes, including a titanic one built around the Veil itself: the Veil Containment building we see in the Irkalla Complex. Per Chioma Esi's recommendation on studying the fluid dynamics of Strand -- perhaps magnetohydrodynamics -- the Neomuni harnessed it; the result was the CloudArk.

The CloudArk was not always its current incarnation as a virtual reality simspace, but a "civic data architecture", a data repository. Conrad Jain, later known as the Cloud Strider Blueyjay, was sentenced to community service for illegal CloudArk activities, his work being to do simulation research. My assumption is that Sundaresh and Esi had made high-end simulations illegal due to Venus shenanigans. Bluejay eventually made the CloudArk into what we know today. Importantly, Bluejay had said this about the Veil:

It... it is the shadow of every story and memory and hope we brought with us!

The stars are off-limits, but the Veil knits an entire universe for us. All we had to do was embrace it!

If the CloudArk is a meshing of paracausal and Vex technology, and can simulate, then it can be used to perform the same functions as say, the FWC Device (both connected to Maya Sundaresh) but to a greater degree. In essence, it's also analogous to OXA in its own way.

Dima Goryainov's comment on the Veil echoes Conrad Jain:

"physical manifestation of incomprehensible cosmic energy. Window into the mind and memory of the universe".

I propose, not that the Veil is OX(T)A, but that it is what inspired it. The Veil is linked to the Traveler. They may have an opposite alignment paracausally, but plainly there's a close connection. I posit that the Veil as a cosmic entity is an Akashic Record, a thought I've seen expressed by u/Lokan: an imprint of every "story and memory and hope", of every thought, pattern, archetype. Dima Goryainov said it's a "window". Eyes are the windows to the soul. The Veil's shape, while hourglass-esque, is also quite like an eyeball.

It seems to me as if the Veil is to those "imitations", what the Form is to the Shadow.

We have no direct knowledge of the Veil that far back, but we can conjecture somewhat on its history based on the assumption that it's been with the Traveler through the long chase. The chronologically earliest civilization uplifted by the Traveler that we know of were the Ammonites, who were Ecumene clients. It's fairly reasonable to assume that the Veil was there with the Traveler all along. We can suppose that the Ecumene made the, or an, OXA. Perhaps the original data entry was the intelligence gleaned from Taox? Certainly the Ammonites and even the Krill are valid candidates for a "xenotaph", the first extinct and the later transformed. Later they would've been with the Harmony for a time, perhaps the Nicha-Thought Ship was their "OXA"? The reason why Quria was in there was always unclear. The Veil would have continued its travels with the Traveler, running from the Black Fleet and uplifting civilizations, finally reaching us.

Where does the Witness fit with all this?

Now I draw your mind back to the World's Grave:

If they want to build an emperor for all outcomes, then I will be the king of only one. I will follow the Deep wherever it goes, and document its power. Let us create a catalog of the grave of worlds, which will be our map to victory.”

Oryx meant to use the cosmic history of civilizational annihilation at his own hands as well as those of the Witness to map a path to the Final Shape. But Oryx was... misguided. He did not have a full picture. The Witness does. A "window into the mind and memory of the universe" is a far, far better map to the Final Shape than a catalog of burned worlds that can be censored like the World's Grave or destroyed and rebuilt like the OXA.

A brief look at Truth to Power:

Life arises. Life spreads, contests itself, and changes. Great things are built and destroyed, but from your vantage point, you see that the victor of each struggle contains—in its negative, in the marks left upon it by the loser and the shapes it assumed to win—the master record of all that it has beaten. Information may not be erased. Whatsoever survives until the end of the cosmos will possess and remember all which came before it.

This is true even of the devouring black hole, which remembers all the secrets it eats.

Listen to Savathun talk of the Final Shape.

The Darkness will eat everything, and its shape will be the Witness’ teeth.

The Witness looked into the eye of the universe, an object or being upon which the threads of all consciousness converge. Listen to what the Witness says as it approaches the Veil: "Finality takes shape." This is a being of pure-thought in itself, a literal egregore, linking into the universal repository of shapes, no... Shapes. Thoughts, patterns. It is closing in on becoming a singularity of mind. From there, communion with the Traveler and "drinking" its Light, to collapse the universe into a final, eternal shape.

Conclusion/TL;DR & acknowledgements

OXA is a pattern of predictive machine that has proliferated throughout the universe in various forms and may ultimately have origins in the Veil. The Veil itself is the Platonic idea of this pattern, an entity/object as a window into cosmic memory. The Witness sought the Veil as a map to the Final Shape.


Big thanks to u/lettucedifferent5104 for helping me with this (and actually giving me the confidence to post it too) and also must acknowledge that, while this theory has gone in a somewhat different direction, it was influenced by this beauty from u/Rorshark.

I'm very dumb and certainly not one of the eggheads of this subreddit and I'm sure many of you can poke holes at this all day long, please do! Discuss and let me know what you think.

Posted Apr 5, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC · edited

32948
pedootz•

But who is Otzot?

163
Huge_Borse•

That’s a question for another day

111
FBI_AGENT_CAYDE•

But in the meantime, good work

70
Gear_•

That always made me so mad because I was like “I FUCKING KNOW WHO OTZOT IS AND WHAT OXA IS” and zivzav would just be like “oh well who knows :)”

22
lolzcat59•

And who is MSund 12?

15
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

I like it.

You have an assumption which denies you additional insight: you assume there is only one Traveler.

In my ravings, I have been saying that WE ARE ALL DEAD. You, me, THE CABAL, THE HIVE, THE ECUMENE, etc.

We are all dead and digitized (or perhaps, in a panpsychist world, we were never alive at all).

That means that the Hive had their digitizer (the World's grave?), the Psions had thiers (OXTA?), etc. There were other Travelers and, for reasons discussed below, there is no reason to expect they all looked the same.

The problem emerged when humanity hacked the Traveler. We got access to the other side of the firewall (the Vault of Glass/Nexus on Venus). We found out about the Vex.

The species that oversees the grand machine - of which I hypothesize that the Vex and IX are a part - initially tried to solve the problem by crashing the databases into one another. Or, so I believe, anyway. That is where Oryx got his quark-splitting sword that allowed him to cut his way into Vex space and into ours. If I focussed on the Cabal enough, I have an idea that I would find the fingerprints of gravitational manipulation around their entry into our dimension of this Universe as well.

People tend to assume that since our Veil looks like a giant eyeball attached to a plug, every other Veil would look the same. But that isn't the way it works in a world where mind is primary. We have been told as much in the lore around strand. It looks the way it looks because that is how our guardian expected it to look, no?

So why would the Hive's Veil look the same as our Veil? Why would the Cabal's digitization engine look like ours? There is no reason. The consciousness of each of these species would have perceived the Veil and any other Traveler in a way that made the most sense for that species. Silver wings fly in many shapes.

The underlying philosophical point here is captured in the Indian idea of Maya. Reality is an illusion created by the mind to explain its sensations. The sensations are real. But the stimulus we perceive as a result of them is created by our own consciousness.

The Veil is the digitization engine of the Traveler. It sucks up souls (information) of destroyed species. The Veil is the soul of the Divine Feminine which bridges the world of the Living and the world of the Dead. The Veil is the spirit of the Traveler from which the Ghosts were shaved at the very last moment in order to allow us - the players - to enter this hidden causality from afar. These three statements are not contradictory. They are, in fact, saying exactly the same thing.

Good post. Thank you.

54
Shad0wDreamer•

Dead and digitized? You mean to tell me it’s all just a VIDEO GAME??

28
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

No, just the opposite. Life is the simulation. Destiny is real. We, the players, are what our characters dream while they sleep.

31
Shad0wDreamer•

So guardians dreaming of us cause them to do things that other characters can’t do? I don’t know if that tracks. The nine (and others) seem to think IRL is the higher plane, if we were the dream we’d be in a lower plane, smaller and more contained.

16
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

Dammit. If this is true it means I actually need to complete this report for work! Way to ruin my fantasy. ;-)

18
Training-Ad-9765•

Iirc savathun wanted to enter or was aware of our world somewhere in the lore.

2
ByrmaxsonOP•

Oh man! Thank YOU, elder Warlock.

I've seen you go over this in several threads already. And I love it! Yet I do not know that I could get into it well enough with you. Reason being I don't think I'm as good at reading the more esoteric stuff in the lore. Part of the reason this is posted today and not a week ago is because I kept reading and rereading the underpinnings of the theory to ensure I'm not talking out of my ass.

I actually really wanted to broach a specific subsection of it but didn't for brevity:

The Veil is the spirit of the Traveler from which the Ghosts were shaved at the very last moment in order to allow us - the players - to enter this hidden causality from afar.

I wholeheartedly believe this. I admit that I probably wouldn't have seen that the entire paragraph is congruent, but you are right, I get it.

Regarding there being more than one Traveler -- infinitely many then?

16
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

As many Travelers as Bungie chooses. To some extent the analogy would be “as many Travelers as there are religions throughout the history of Humankind.”

Each Traveler is really just bringing the information from the lives lived by the living back to the matrix which is the mind of the Divine.

2
ByrmaxsonOP•

Hmm. So the purgatory inside the Travelers (do I have it right? I am about to go to sleep so my brain doesn't word good) is shared, right?

4
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

Yes, probably, maybe.

I go back and forth between whether a/the Traveler is a gateway or a hard drive. Purgatory is “the simulation.” The vast vats of Radiolaria in Avalon are the best illustration I’ve seen for what multiple “hard drives” inside the machine might look like. Or maybe they are all databases stored on a single black hole “hard drive?” They have the traditional cylinders shape that denotes data stores in network diagrams.

I spend a lot of time puzzling about Vex computational architecture. My best guess is that the Vault of Glass/Nexus is a firewall and the Traveler contained both a digitization device and a mini black hole computer with multiple databases for each species it digitized. The Traveler was sent to the Sol system, so each species in the Traveler’s databases was from a planet (or moon) in the Sol system. The IX and the Witness are/were locked out of the system, so they could only manipulate it through small actions like sending Xur, getting the Drifter to do whatever the hell he is doing with all those motes of darkness, giving Crota a sword that could connect the databases, etc.

Since the Vex (computational daemons) within the computer have been cut off from other parts of the Vex network, they “went feral.” They tried to reconnect to the network by creating the black heart. They observed that the Hive have some access to powers outside the network (part of the program gives each species its God fantasy burdened by a Desire to keep the species too busy to notice it is trapped in a simulator). So they replicated Hive religious behaviors to attempt to reaccess the full network in that manner.

I’ve never thought about it from a network standpoint, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Ghaul’s messing with the Traveler - and even the “cage” he used - have modern computational analogies. Ghaul did something that restored limited access to the world beyond the simulation, I would imagine.

I’d reiterate that the story exists at a number of metaphoric levels, and computational architecture is just one of the symbol sets I track. Bungie does use computational symbols repeatedly and consistently- but we shouldn’t be under the illusion that it is anything more than a metaphor within this mysterious “network of the mind” that we occupy.

5
D1TitanMasterRace:srl: Pro SRL Finalist•

Man these crazy theories are starting to remind me of wish 15

8
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

Do not taunt the Happy Fun Warlock.

11
Alchez1•

You are correct that Strand looks the way it does because of the Guardian, because they made it real through their mind by having the underlying "field of possibility" emerge into physical space.

This is speculation, but I don't think that applies to the Veil though, since the Veil doesn't seem like its an underlying field as much as it is the manifestation of some base property of the universe.

The best clue I can provide for this is that Strand cannot be simulated via calculations. But what did Asher Mir do in the VexNet, free of the influence of our Guardian, using the massive Vex database? It created the Veil in the same exact form that we see.

Granted, you could say that since Asher is closer to us than the Hive or Cabal, he saw it in the same way, but I bet if it was Mithrax or Savathun in the VexNet instead, they'd produce the same form.

I appreciate the other parts of your post though. Thanks for adding that insight!

6
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

I’m speaking more at the highest level in regard to the concept of Maya. It would be fair play for Bungie to say that anything we saw was an illusion created by our consciousness. That would fit the philosophy.

But, of course, from an audience perspective if you have zero cohesion between dimensions the story feels cheap and gets impossible to follow.

I feel like OPs post does a good job of postulating why the Veil may take many forms in different simulations. I think it would be much harder for Bungie to get away with different Travelers.

But I’ve long ago given up speculating on the details. Hopefully now people will finally believe that I do know the central themes of the underlying plot - as bizarre as they are. There is a body of literature that repeats them in many guises.

But, there are many guises. So I didn’t know what “the Divine Feminine” would look like. I knew it was a missing piece from the traditional myth. But it could have been found in Mara’s missing companion, Taox, or the remains Cryptarch who went off to have tea with the IX. I was looking for a pretty stone in the Vault of Glass, personally.

So the idea that perception is created by belief is ancient. How Bungie implements it? I’m as in the dark as everyone else.

7
Alchez1•

Yeah, I think I get caught up in the details and struggle with trying to reconcile (probably by design) all these different philosophical "spheres" that Bungie has floated up (atleast the ones that I can see and understand; there's still a lot to learn).

Are there any other post(s) you'd recommend that takes a higher level approach on the over-arching story and make an attempt to synthesize?

3
sanecoin64902:tri: Hot Dog Fireman•

It’s such a moving target with so much new clarifying information being added recently. Find one of the Discords where they are really interested in this subtopic of the lore. I don’t have authority to invite you to any such place, but they are out there. Ongoing debates getting into the finer points of how the different philosophical models may be being applied.

2
Shad0wDreamer•

I wonder if the veil is the reason for Elsie repeating her timeline. Like it’s the thing that sends her back because of the paracausal forces clashing. It is a seemingly eternal pattern, even if she did discover it this go around.

28
__Spank•

I haven't read it all. But I plan to, I wholeheartedly agree. My second theory is that the veil and the 9 will be closely related in the near future. As it seems like something they should be extremely interested in.

21
ImReverse_Giraffe•

The 9 are the Bungie higher ups. And xur are the devs. And atarhorse is someone else in Bungie.

I can't remember everything about that theory, but the 9, Xur and Starhorse are all related to Bungie/Bungie employees. It has something to do with Xur's line of "My will is not my own." It started as an inside joke among the devs or something like that and it's just grown from there.

14
Far_Perspective_•

It grown from inside joke to what?

3
xXdog_with_a_knifeXx:cabal: Whether we wanted it or not...•
7
ByrmaxsonOP•

Please let me know when you get around to reading it!

1
BourbonAndBlues•

Not sure how it fits in, but it's also worth noting Nezarec calls the Veil the "sapid secret of [the Witness's] first victims." I'd love to know what race that was too.

11
James_Fantastic•

Woah, that was cool I feel like I just got a PhD.

2
rumpghost:savathun: Savathûn’s Marionette•

Very nice.

2
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1
Far_Perspective_•

I doubt OXA is something super important or that we'll ever see it in the game. Recent lore, with new acronym OXTA, seems to be tongue in cheek way hinting at Taox connection for fanservice sake.

1†
ByrmaxsonOP•

I do not expect OXA is going to be seen in game either, at least not in the sense of an "original". The point of OXA in the post isn't that "it's coming", it's that it's a pattern of thing that is prevalent in other things we've seen, and equivalent or bootleg OXA's are something we've seen a lot.

5
petergexplains•

ok myelin

1
ByrmaxsonOP•

Hm?

1
_lilleum•

The Timid Truth says that we are the smallest, most fragile things alive. The natural prey of the universe. Taox would have us believe that our ancestors came to the Fundament to hide from the hungry void.

Based on your ideas, I would say that Taox did not create OXTA, she called herself in the name of the one.

Thus, she was the teacher of the royal family, promoting the idea of the survival of their biological species, based on the results of the Archive.

1
ByrmaxsonOP•

TBF, I didn't say Taox created OXA, but that it may have been incepted from the intelligence she provided to the Ecumene.

Your idea inverting that though is also very good, however! There's no particular reason for the archive to originate with the Ecumene and could indeed predate them too. It's something I'd thought of noting down in the body of the thread, but thought simply making reference to it's eternal recurrence as brought up by Match was enough.

1
_lilleum•

Taox may not be related to the archive, but this characteristic of her - the teaching of the survival of the species - makes a coincidence in addition to her name.

If an odic force is used in the name, it is related to frequencies and vibrations. This is literally a description of the mechanism of the Veil, its visual manifestations in cymatic patterns.

1
Infernalxelite•

I thought the OXA was confirmed to be a digital mind created from taox, the krill betrayer the hive god siblings never found

0
ByrmaxsonOP•

I go over what the OXA is in the thread based on exactly the lore that bases this "confirmation".

1
Infernalxelite•

Ngl my guy, that’s a lot of reading I can’t be bothered with, is there a bullet points version

-2
ByrmaxsonOP•

That's what the TL;DR is for.

2
Tydog22•

I swear Bungie must just write vague stories just so they can go online and steal the really good ideas for backstory 😂

0
PreviousRepair6563•

hmmm... so Nezerac got Veil/OXA from Psions and then Savathun stole it from him and transferred it to Neomuna.

0
TheGrey_GOD•

Yeah I’m not reading all that, can I get a recap?

-3
ByrmaxsonOP•

There's a TL;DR.

3
TheGrey_GOD•

Oh thank you! I didn’t see

2
Big_Maintenance_9056:dz: Darkness Zone•

i think people should stop talking about veil☹️

-14
Uzas_B4TBG•

Why? It’s the newest important object we have in the lore, it’s gonna stir up conversation and theories.

1