Comparison of our buildup play vs Brighton leading to constant pressure.
Posted May 5, 2023, 1:41 PM UTC
220136
I'd love these compilations if it wasn't for the cherry-picking to paint whatever picture it is you want to tell.
Why not show the full picture, the good and the bad? Why do you feel the need to only show the good play from Brighton and the bad play from us? What about from the very first couple of minutes of the game:
- 1:20: Brighton play it out from their keeper and lose possession in their own half resulting in an excellent goal-scoring opportunity for Antony.
- 2:00: Brighton try to play it out from the keeper and lose possession in their own box, but it deflects off Fred out for a goal-kick
- 2:19: Brighton play out from the back, end up going long, losing possession to Dalot, ball comes all the way back to Steele who ends up kicking the ball straight out for a throw-in.
Why don't you include any of that?
223
give 'em hell boys! enough of this bullshit.
60
Because that doesn't fit the narrative.
37
Genuinely good question but the answer I feel is actually in the result and game we all watched. This isn’t about Brighton - it’s about United. If we want to make it about Brighton then yes they have been performing out of their skin. And United have been underperforming since before the League Cup final.
Second to the ball for the majority of all games subsequent.
I’m not going to blame de Gea for any of this even though I think we need a new keeper. But we need a new everything it seems when we he hit these waves of lethargic performance each season which have afflicted us for 10 years now.
These dips in form are so ingrained it seems you can set your watch by them. Honestly the mentality of it. Identical to Ole beating PSG in Paris. The sense of euphoria and (that portion of)the fan base getting carried away and then the players seem to get floored by some kind of psychological backlash.
17
He doesn’t include any of that because any hate directed towards De Gea and Maguire equals automatic upvotes here.
People love to scapegoat. Plain and simple. I’m glad there are at least some people that want to fight back against it. It’s toxic and it needs to stop, and mods here have to start keeping it in check. It’s not ok.
13
Our front three are slightly woeful atm, I love rashford and I want to see Antony do well, but they seem to avoid passing to the middle because our strikers consist of a Frenchman who’s 30 years past le revolution and Wout Wout who’s too busy running from the sound of the po-lice
1
It's not hate. He ruins any chance for smooth aggressive okay.
1
What are you on about, De Gea had 21 successful passes and 20 unsuccessful. Jason Steele had 39 successful to 5 unsuccessful does that paint a picture for you
2†
Because we lost. You don't focus on what you did well?
0
Isn't that literally what highlight videos do? When there's a good Bruno performance, a highlight video will drop on this sub showing some of his great passes and moments of brilliance but will clearly leave out times he loses possession for example. Does that paint the wrong picture on Bruno's performance? Not at all. Anyone who watched the match will see how much more effective Steele was on the ball than De Gea and was overall one of the main differences that made Brighton's play more potent and sustainable throughout the entire game.
0
It doesn’t fit the De Gea Bad™ narrative
-2†
You don't seriously think he's good do you?
-1
Everytime people talk about cherry-picking to defend de gea forgets that only way you can defend de gea is by cherry-picking his hollywood saves. Every other department from claiming Crosses, sweeping, passing, kicking, build up play he suck at.
-7†
I think I've already been perfectly clear on my point to show it all. Not cherry-picking the mistakes. Not cherry-picking the saves. Show every touch and involvement. Otherwise it's just a biased video from someone who wants to show the player in a positive light or a negative one, depending on how they feel about them personally.
15
so you picked 3 instances in the first 5 minutes to discredit his performance over a 90 min game ? Despite seeing our goals keeper hoof it for more than 60 mins giving away possession almost every time he passes.
-14
You missed the point spectacularly.
I'm asking, why not show all of it? Why cut out every occasion that Brighton fuck up, and every occasion that we actually play out well?
Btw, the first 3 examples in the compilation video of Brighton's "elite" playing out from the back is actually a single passage of play, cut to make it look like separate passages. They never got out of their half during that period except when they hoof it long at 8:43 and the ball ends up in De Gea's arms. Of course the video doesn't show that though, as that's not the story that OP wants to tell...
28
Because there aren’t many occasions where brighton GK fucked up during buildup. steele completed 38/41 passes and 4/7 long balls. 93% and 47% respectively. While De Gea completed 19/39 passes and 9/28 long balls, 49% and 32% respectively.
You’ll have a very hard time finding bad passages of play from steele throughout the game. Exact opposite for De Gea.
-11†
If there's so few, why not show them?
17
You should be ashamed of yourself. Steele had only 5 unsuccessful passes. 5. De Gea has 20!
Cherry picking stats?! For every missed pass from Steele, you’d have 4 from De Gea. How’s that for cherry picking?!
-14
So you're saying that we shouldn't show any mistakes from Steele, no matter how few there are, and we should only show De Gea's mistakes? That's what you're saying, yes?
And I'm the one that should be ashamed of myself?
19
What’s this kindergarten argument? The point of the videos is to show how bad DDG is in build up not Steele.
It’s like showing Harry Kane missed chances when comparing his finishing to Weghorst. It’s pointless. He’s better at it than Ddg so I don’t get the point of showing his missed passes.
-11
Ah so the point of the video is to start from a pre established conclusion and only show evidence that supports said conclusion. Got it.
9
This is the problem with stats. A successful pass can still play the person receiving the ball into trouble and an unsuccessful pass can be the fault of the receiving players a much as the passer.
I made the point in another thread today but United issues with playing out from the back are about a lot more than De Gea. So many of Uniteds outfield players are nervous under any kind of pressure. There’s moments in the complementation where the players aren’t making themselves available for passes.
De Gea isn’t great at playing out from the back but if you replaced him him with another keeper it won’t change the fact that half the squad pass the ball backwards or loses it when confronted with any pressure.
11
This is very well said.
A good example of this from last night is a goal kick at 47:01. Shaw passes to De Gea, Bruno comes deep and De Gea passes to him, Bruno passes to Lindelof, and he carries the ball forward. At this point we're through Brighton's first press and on our way.
However.. AWB decides to drop deep and so the only passing option Lindelof has open to him is to pass back to AWB. AWB then passes back to De Gea.
At this point, no-one shows for the ball. Shaw turns, back to goal, and starts trotting up the pitch. Lindelof is still coming back from his more advanced position. Casemiro turns and starts walking away from goal. Bruno doesn't move. After a couple touches, Dalot comes back and Shaw turns to come back but De Gea's already made the decision to kick it long by this point.
De Gea is absolutely not great playing out from the back, but if our outfield players want the ball to feet they need to show for it and do better when they have it.
A proper comparison video would've included the shape our defence and midfield are in when DDG has the ball, and how Brighton press us, compared to the shape they're in and how we press when Steele is in possession. Instead this "comparison" fixates on DDG kicking the ball long without any other deeper thought given.
11
I feel like I hit my head because somebody is finally watching the same game I am.
2
Yeah that’s an issue with the midfield, especially when our DM can’t retain ball or pass under pressure.
However that issue can be reduced if our goalie can play a a good pass. More often than not the pass from Ddg is slow, that the space the person had to beat the press is gone before the ball reaches the player. That’s another issue, then there’s his pass selection, the kind of pass he chooses. He doesn’t have the dink to the full back that most goalies use to evade pressure.
You’re correct, however changing the goalie would help our build up massively.
2
Cause all of the examples are buildup involving the keeper playing not an error by a player.
-24†
Ok, so DDG plays out to AWB at 10:57. Why not show that? He passes to Shaw at 13:07, and then some quick passing gets us through Brighton's press. What about that one?
How about his pass to AWB at 15:21? You'd have to cut immediately after AWB receives the ball though as his terrible touch nearly lets Mitoma in (but that should fit your criteria as you cut out all Brighton's errors too).
At least be honest about what you're showing.
71
If you want to count, why wouldn't you count the 3 times he played the same underhit pass to Casemiro who once managed to salvage it and lost the ball the other time because of it.
-20
I would count those. Where did I say the mistakes should be ignored?
I'm saying the good and the bad should be shown. Instead we have a compilation that omits every single completed pass (21 of them). Even inaccurate passes that result in us retaining possession (winning 2nd ball) is left out. And that's a "comparison" is it? Wow.
41
This is literally just keepers for both teams thats like thats it.
-27
The keepers made a lot more passes than the ones you’re showing
3
Fred caused two turnovers directly caused by their keeper.
41
Why didn't you select any clips of us from the first half? Has it occurred to you that maybe it was a tactical change, because when the ball was with any of our defence/midfield in our defensive third we were giving it away? Maybe it wasn't because of de gea we were going long
7
Lindelof literally makes the simplest of mistakes in the opening 10 minutes which results in a clear cut 1v1 opportunity for them and Casemiro was misplacing passes all game. But no, you strictly need to play it short throughout and if you don’t then it’s all on the goalkeeper.
3
DDG is not the best at it but this comparison is laughable. Brighton were pressing us much faster and higher up the pitch than us most times. We left their CBs pass all day long without pressing. When we did press, it was not a systematic good press.
48
Brighton were pressing us much faster and higher up the pitch than us most times.
Because they played a higher defensive line, wonder why we didn't do that after the first two games?
-11†
Downvoted because people are sentimental about payed employees of the club.
0
Gentle reminder that Steele was their second choice keeper, behind Sanchez who is also ahead of de gea in spanish NT order.
34
Their keeper did make a lot of errors too playing from the back
29
No, Jason Steele did not make a lot of errors at all lol. The difference between him and De Gea in the buildup is massive, even though some of it down to Brighton simply being amazing at playing out from the back. We also did give him easy options sometimes by leaving their centrebacks open, which did work very well for the first part of the game. Still much of it is down to the keeper. For comparison:
Jason Steele: 39/44 passes were succesfull
David De Gea: 21/41 passes were succesfull
Huge difference.
41
Steele masterclass, DDG could learn a thing or two.
Some keepers aren’t just limited at shot stopper or playing out from the back some have both and they are the type of keepers we need.
19
A clearly simplistic and idiotic way of comparing two different play styles .. glad you re not a video analyst
17
We're supposed to be playing a high line and can't.
1
? Who even told you that ? We were not pressing their CBs but the GK, and it was not all game long, it was at some particular moment. When their CBs were on the ball, we didn’t press …
You know , it might go along with game plan, oppositions , and something along those lines ..
2
ETH style, I mean it's what he wants. Our team can't currently do it. We press but it's super super spread out.
1
De Gea plays it short: Defender loses the ball. Why didn't he just boot it out? It's De Gea's fault
De Gea plays it long: Attacker loses the aerial duel. Why didn't he play a pass? It's De Gea's fault
De Gea boots it out: Why didn't he play a short or long pass? Awful keeper
16
Seems like the variable is DeGea idk.
2
De Gea always takes too much time on the ball.
15
What a terrible comparison. OP, there's time to delete this.
11
De Gea lumps it up to Dunk, this isn't thread worthy, well never be able to control a game as long as we have a GK who is incapable of the most straightforward pass.
10
It amazes me that people can't see what incredible damage is caused by having DDG give the ball straight back to the opposition and/or passing to players under pressure to the point that they end up giving the ball away or not controlling it. We just get attacked again, instantly. Which also results in our players getting pulled back and back into a deeper block with no out balls because everyone is defending. It's horrendous.
8
OP really spent time making this pathetic “comparison” video and thought we were all going to agree with him on his little disgusting agenda. Do better, kid.
6†
What is the "agenda" actually?
Have you seen a Untied game this season? DDG as much as we love him gives the ball away in EVERY game. Sucks at short passes, sucks at long passes. Do you have any facts to disprove that?
5
In this case, yes, there are some facts that, at the very least, would suggest that De Gea’s ability to get the ball to its intended target (i.e a United outfield player) is actually quite good.
He has 100% pass completion for short passes, and 98.3% for medium (6 passes missed out of 352). Long passing is way less, as you’d expect, at 43.8%.
For comparison, Ramsdale is at 96.5%, 98%, and 37.1% for each category. De Gea is higher in every pass completion metric.
What usually happens though, we’re told to ignore these stats (which you could call “facts”) by people who speak negatively of De Gea. That’s when things start sounding like an agenda…
5
You need to actually learn to analyze games instead of scapegoating one single player. We don’t have players who can receive the ball and transition from defence to attack easily, and we play with a single holding midfielder whereas teams like Brighton play with two, which allows them to have an extra player when building up from the back. We also don’t have a striker that can hold the ball when playing long balls from the back due to either high pressure or having players out of position. When DDG tries to put a long ball in our attackers can’t win any of them, some of them look like very decent balls actually but our attackers just don’t seem to even want to dispute them, which makes DDG look like he gave a bad pass.
0
Are you watching the game, mate?
1
The stronger "agenda" is the one that says De Gea is a good enough keeper for this club. Anyone who actually watches a single game can clearly see how much he's holding us back
3
There’s always going to be Divs amongst us who think they should have ETH’s job and offer context free analysis or animations.
-1†
I literally saw de gea with the ball in his hands and within seconds the ball was with some Brighton player. We couldn't keep the ball ffs.
6
We need players who can retain possession under pressure and good at progressively carrying the ball so that defence can take a breather. Only Anthony and Shaw in our current squad can some what do that. Allistair Brighton rarely loses the ball underpressure, Grilish, Bernado silva, Rodri etc are the same. We can put all the blame on De gea and yes he is the problem but 80% of other players cant protect the ball under pressure in our squad.
5
DDG is a legend, but we need a new keeper so we can play a better brand of football
5
And next season we are still stuck with DDG..
4†
Utd will never be a serious team with the current #1
4
And we’re about to renew DeGeas contract. Sums up the club doesn’t it?
4
Wait you’re telling me long ball doesn’t work?
3
Playing with 10 players in possession v 11 players was always going to be hard. This happens to us a lot against top teams especially away from home. We also don't do ourselves any favors by being wasteful in front of goal.
10 players is being generous
Brighton was playing through our midfield like it wasn’t there. Fred was awful.
Fred must’ve been told to attack, he did put their back four under pressure at times and even the keeper, somehow managed to find himself running up the left wing with the ball to the corner flag too
If Brighton played through our midfield like it wasn't there, then why didn't they trash us like Liverpool.
What could Ten hag do with
1: martial who ,if he goes for a tackle will be out till next season.
2 : rashford who is playing through an injury with no garnacho to sub him
3: can't use eriksen because he can't press the way we need to against Brighton
4: we can't use our bench because most of the useful ones are already playing.
Now these are all excuses and I am not gonna say we let 3 points get away from us but stop saying that our midfield was absent. They tried their best, we made good chances but we weren't lucky. That's it.
Yeah, most of the time they beat our press out wide, and Casemiro was too impatient at times
Also, with the average span of a game per 3,5 days since December (?) it's very little time to work on stuff like this, while also working on offensive setups, having to recover and rest/do video analysis etc. On top of that we are missing both CBs and have two defenders playing out of position.
Our team is just burned out. We're limping to the finish here.
We're not wasteful in front of goal. Every team misses chances, and our XG was 1.4 to their 2.3. We fail to control games and hope we get lucky, that's our problem.
I think you're right. The early Antony chance was a big one, sure, but we were very much out of control of the game overall.
Even that Anthony chance was a 0.11xg weak foot half volley. You consistently see a lot of strikers miss that and not worry as they know they'll get another 2 chances later.
Ah I was referring to this early chance:
https://youtu.be/kWQGGLKCm7g?t=7
But indeed I don't think we should be relying on Antony suddenly becoming a great finisher. We should be working on creating easier chances, and more chances.
I believe he’s referring to the Antony chance where he was 1v1 with the keeper on his strong foot within the first 3 minutes of the game
In the last 5 games in the league, our xG is 12.33, we have scored 7 goals. I am not sure what else to call it if not wasteful. This is per understat.
https://understat.com/team/Manchester_United/2022
Let me rephrase. The problem isn't that we're wasteful. We haven't properly controlled a game in ages. If we were dominating and couldn't finish I'd understand, but we're going head to head with teams we should be dominating and complaining about missing singular chances.
We have been dominating the first half then come out 2nd half a different side and look exhausted. I'd wager our thin squad is causing this because soon as a player is "fit" they're right back in the 11 and it shows. The only players who aren't are basically not good enough. Look at our bench every game.
People should be realistic and ask what position do we even have depth in? Maybe wingers. I mean we're currently using a LB at CB and a RB at LB for example.
If you score goals you control games
Did you watch the Villa game? We totally controlled that?
We just seem to be totally unable to against teams that are good in possesion - that’s our problem
Also, 0.75 of that for Brighton was the last pen. No way did we deserve to lose that game. Not going to argue that we can't control games. Having a keeper poor with his feet, strikers who can't control any ball and bring others into play is a major reason for this.
Idk what game you were watching, Brighton were noticeably better, and saying Martial can't control any ball and bring others into play is an interesting take to say the least.
I just said we didn't control the game, that doesn't mean they deserved to win. The xG was identical before that pen.
[removed]
I keep hoping that we will turn around, but I think this is it - that's the best you can get from this lot. I think we have a mediocre squad, and they lack more than individual value - most of them lack work ethic. I honestly think we only have 2 top class players- Varane and Casemiro - and depending on who's playing around themselves, we manage to transform even them in average players.
Casemiro was exposed constantly with Brighton. Lots of bad decision-making in front leads to dangerous possessions for opponents with Casemiro taking risky challenges. Bruno is passing badly .. but because 1 in 10 passes is a great one, we give him a break. Anthony and Rashford can not pass even their lifes depend on that. Martial and Sancho are just lazy. I don't know wtf Fred keeps playing at this point, and I start wondering about ETH's selection.
AWB is below average in possession, Shaw has his brain farts constantly , Malacia and Dalot have energy, but they also give the ball away too much.
So if we don't compensate for our lack of skill and poor decision-making with work rate - and we do not - this is what we get. Scrapping for 4th place. That's the best that these players can do.
We are constantly outplayed by hard-working, high pressing teams.