Source
r/nfl•
IanFin

Personal Foul on Touchdown

If the defense commits a personal foul on a touchdown, the penalty yardage will be added to the spot of the ensuing kickoff. So the scoring team will kickoff from the 50 instead of the 35.

The issue is that most kickoffs are now easy touchbacks. The average starting field position after a kickoff is the 22. So the penalty is very unlikely to negatively impact the offending team.

What made me think of this is a play in the Redskins / Cowboys game on Thursday. After Pierre Garcon scored a big touchdown. Mike Jenkins, the Cowboy safety caught up with him in the back of the endzone and gave him a shove out of frustration. The Redskins kicked off from the 50, which resulted in the same thing if we had kicked from the 35.

Do you think this rule should be changed?

Posted Nov 24, 2012, 7:11 PM UTC

1234
[deleted]•

Teams just aren't taking advantage of this. They could easily just have their kicker kick it high and have it come down around the goal line, forcing the other team to return it, but they would rather take the safe touchback rather than take a risk and try to pin them at the 10.

8
bunkatumbaTexans•

It is incredibly difficult kick upwards on a kickoff and be accurate at the same time.

Also, touchbacks are the closest thing to consistency in the NFL.

9
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
curien49ers•

Also, touchbacks are the closest thing to consistency in the NFL.

Which is why I think that a touchback (at least on a kickoff) should come out to the 25 or 30 instead of the 20.

1
ssdestroyerBuccaneers•

That would just be yet another benefit for offenses and another disadvantage for defenses.

6
curien49ers•

It would be a strategic benefit for offense, but not a tactical one. Basically, if you're measuring offense and defense by score, you're right; but that isn't really a good way to measure them. What it does do directly is benefit kick returns at the cost of kick coverage, and it also makes onside kick tries more attractive.

1
cdskipRams•

It would also make a surprise onside kick less risky.

A failed one would probably leave the other team with the ball around their own 40; a successful one would leave you with the ball around the same place.

I'm not sure how often you'd have to be successful to make it worth giving up about 20 yards of expected field position when you fail, but it probably wouldn't be too terribly high.

5
Canucklehead_Esq49ers•

I don't know why this isn't done more often. You are gambling 20 yards against a turnover (onside kick recovery). Its a good deal even if you only only succeed one time in four.

1
deadsoonRaiders•

What about a free 15 yards on any play the rest of the game? 4th and 14? Use the PF yards! 1st down.

4
IanFinOPRedskins•

That would be very interesting, but quite different from any other foul.

1
BonerInSweatpantsPanthers•

the problem with changing the rule is that all penalties have to be enforced before the next play from scrimmage which, in this case, is the kickoff. also if you change it for a defensive personal foul, you'd have to have an equal effect for an offensive personal foul. so any of these proposed rule changes would have to have an offensive equivalent otherwise you're saying offensive personal fouls should be punished less than defensive

3
HowYaGuysDoinGiants•

I believe the Lions had a kickoff from the opponent's 45 earlier this season because of back to back penalties. However they were obviously not smart enough to just go for the onside kick.

2
IanFinOPRedskins•

Jim Schwartz isn't the brightest bulb.

3
hughtankmanChargers•

I can just imagine Schwartz jacking up his kicker to boot the ball as hard as he fucking can from the opponents 45.

3
dinosbucketChargers•

That's a 55 yard field goal, right? Would they be allowed to try for it?

1
HowYaGuysDoinGiants•

Technically a 62 I believe. And I don't think you can try for a field goal. But if you properly onside kick you just have to get the ball to their 35. Seems worth the risk at that point. Or maybe a short kick with some hang time to pin them inside the ten.

1
iltat_workNFL•

Perhaps charge 15 yards (or half the distance from the goal) from the team's next starting possession, so on a touchback, they'd start on their own 10. However, any change would need to apply only to a PF that occurred following the declaration of the TD. Otherwise, a simple roughing the passer on a play that happened to turn into a TD could suddenly become a horrific penalty.

2
SewenNewesRedskins•

This is the best solution my family and I could come up with.

2
iltat_workNFL•

The only real problem I see with that is the idea of future applying penalties in general. What if the team returns the next kick for a touchdown? Do we call it back for a previous PF? If so, where do we apply it?

I don't like my solution, but I think it is something that needs to be addressed.

2
Canucklehead_Esq49ers•

Apply the penalty against their next play from scrimmage. If the kickoff is a touchback, the receiving team takes over at the 10. If the receiving team scores on the kickoff then their enduing kickoff is from their 20.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
zeeyellowdartSaints•

If the ball goes through the uprights on a kick off after being moved forward because of a penalty; EXTRA extra point.

1
IanFinOPRedskins•

I like that suggestion a lot.

1
NoToRAtheismTexans•

Subtract the 15 after the return/touchback. Dunno what to do in the case of touchdowns

1
TheTruthYouHate1Cowboys•

How about a timeout, as in, the offending team is charged 1 TO for every personal foul on a scoring play?

I can't think of any way to make yardage into a reasonable dissuasive factor, so maybe they go a little outside the box for this one.

They could even expand it to FGs and PATs, with field goal roughing calls being declinable - so teams can choose to keep the points, take the 15 yards, or charge their opponent a timeout.

-1
MewtwoStruckBackSteelers•

An idea I have always kicked around is a "penalty clock" - if a team declines a penalty, for each yard that penalty would be, they get 1 second added to this extra clock. If a team is tied with or behind its opponent and has time on the penalty clock, when the regular clock hits 0 they can move the penalty clock time onto the main game clock and use that to try and make a comeback.

1
dahvdahvTitans•

One option would be for the team who got fouled to automatically get the ball on their own 40 yard line (the result of an out of bounds kickoff or alternatively 15 yards from the spot of a touchback). I think that would be a big enough deterrent.

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[deleted]•

Sure and while we're at it why don't we add a penalty box like the NHL? Every time a player commits a penalty he has to sit in the box for 5 minutes and his team has to play short handed without him.

Good deterrent ≠ Good idea.

4
baseballrodent49ers•

How about everytime there is a penalty, the opposing team's kicker gets two free extra point kicks.

2
neksusPatriots•

I'd be for it if instead we gave the victim of the foul the free kicks. Could you imagine Vick or Calvin Johnson lining up for field goals all the time?

3
robbyk123Giants•

I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying... Are you suggesting that if there is a personal foul against the defense on a touchdown, the scoring team will get the ball back at the 40?

2
dahvdahvTitans•

Derp. That didn't make any sense.

But the general idea does; fix the penalized team to start a fix yardage. Maybe the 10 yardline.

2