Source
r/DotA2•
delay4sec

Why not a role queue for unranked as well?

Suggestion

So hear me out. I am mainly a pos 5 player, I climbed to 7k playing pos 5, but sometimes I want to practice core roles as well. Then there is 3 option for me.

  • play ranked

Now since I did not climb MMR as core(pos 1 or 2), pretty much my MMR is measurement of my skill as a support player. Thus my team will have to deal with a person who is probably 1k to 2k below their skill level. I will definitely lose my lane to other mid players, and put my team is bad spot. I feel like it's reverse-smurfing and I don't want to grief my team.

  • play unranked

Now it seems most logical but there is a big problem. Since there is no role queue, I can't assure that I get to play the roles I want to practice. In unranked, if there is two people who mark mid, there is chance that the other guy just first picks SF/Ember/Invoker or some mid-only hero and the other guy has to adapt. I will play the other roles if I had to but then I didn't queue for that.

  • play on smurf

Sadly this works the best for me because I can make sure I get to play the roles I want. But this is ethically, the worst way.

So my biggest problem lies in the fact that I can't make sure that I get to play the roles I want to in unranked. If you introduce role queue into unranked, this problem will be solved.

Just like ranked, you can divide the pool into two. Role queues and classics. If you don't mind playing any roles, then play classic. If you want to play some role, then play role queue.

What do you think?

Posted Jun 10, 2023, 7:00 AM UTC

2318
Wattakfuk•

I think most of us would agree that it's good but only Valve has actual data about it.

My guess would be that queue times will be much higher. Ranked all pick has about 13.5million matches per month and unranked has only 4million matches.

So if every other condition is the same it's a 3.5x queue time increase compared to rank. But there are even less support players in unranked, so it can be higher.

Going from a 3min queue to 15min is huge because unranked players play casually. You'd have to dedicate at least 1.25h for a single game. The player count will drop and some people will consider it too time consuming.

It's just a guess but queue times probably increase way more than we think.

5
GlassHalfSmashed•

The queue logic only holds up if unranked matchmaking has the same strict criteria / logic as ranked, but my understanding is that it's much more flexible on its MMR rules so the game should still be fairly reasonable queue times.

2
Wattakfuk•

True but from my experience, ranked matches making has always been faster than unranked.

2
verytoxicbehaviour:teamliquid:•

Could it be..... because despite what reddit tells you overall dota is very competitive game and people who are like it's just an unranked I will play SS 5 and will make sure safelane is lost and they get 4 wisdom runes are not super welcomed and unranked is exactly the place to meet those people XD

1
Ketrai•

I wish. There's actually quite a few sweaty stacks and people who just pick meta. Makes the games boring.

1
delay4secOP:templarassassin:•

Queue time is definitely good point that I missed. Now that I think of it, people who wanna farm role queue(who I think will be mostly people like me, who wanna practice) could be significantly lower than normal queue.

1
safarahi777•

What if the rank of every pos is separated?

2
JoelMahon:slark:•

I would love that, hard to do because if you main a role then climb or fall the others would lag, there'd need to be some kind of multiplier based on role frequency.

otherwise you could climb 1000mmr on pos1 but only 100mmr on pos5 even if you had a higher winrate with pos5 simply because you played fewer games.

my idea for a rank system is to use your most recent 200 games to determine your rank. with more weighting on recent games e.g. most recent 10 games comprise 20% of your rank, most recent 100 games comprise 75% of your rank, etc, something like that. this mean any boosting or account buying or smurfing is completely corrected within 200 games at absolute worst (unless the smurf throws but that's easier to detect) but mostly corrected within just 100 games.

1
Agelv•

Isn't there already a system in place for the roles you queued for having their own ranks? It's likely the game would match you with lower ranked people for roles you aren't well-versed in. You can even see how it ranks you according to roles by hovering over your rank in the find match menu.

1
delay4secOP:templarassassin:•

It doesn't work for immortal I think. Or it could work, but it wouldn't work if you're >6.5k because it definitely doesn't work for immortal draft.

1
cLiMaeX•

Could you share some replays? Or dotabuff?

I also climbed from ancient to immortal by pos5 only. Would love to see some replays from you

1
delay4secOP:templarassassin:•

I spammed treant. It was previous patch so I don't think there is anything worthy to learn from, sadly I lost a lot of MMR during calibration and after new patch so I'm sure there is better resources to learn from :)

1
Employee724:dawnbreaker:•

Dividing the pool means lower quality of games or longer queue time.

I propose 2 solutions for your problem:

  1. Mark the core role(with current op hero) you want fast and use /roll this should get you your role most of the times, and even in role queue you have to queue all roles some of the time (that is if you are below a certain rank anyways)

  2. Watch some replays of popular players on their core role in depth before playing ranked with a core role. Yes you'll probably still be a little worse, but you can make up for that in part by watching replays and getting familiar with your hero in turbo games and with the combos in demo mode.

1
delay4secOP:templarassassin:•

  1. Your solution 1 works sometimes, but it doesn't guarantee. My point was that it doesn't guarantee so I don't want to risk playing a game on roles I already know how to play in normal.

  2. I do know how to study a hero, but playing it is whole new experience. You don't really learn how to drive a car from watching people drive. I need to play those heroes to learn, and so far best ethical option is for me, is to gamble playing unranked and hope I can play the role I want, and I was hoping if there is a way to make it risk-free. 5 man stacking in unranked would solve this, but most of my friends play ranked so I can't really convince so many people to play unranked just so I can practice a hero.

2
Employee724:dawnbreaker:•

hmm, having ranked roles for unranked would only solve 1 in the case that you have enough role queue games in that unnranked role queue mode. So In a way it also doesn't guarantee that you get to play your role.

If you climb high enough in mmr role queue disappears altogether, how do you deal with those situations at the moment, or do you still have role queue at your level?

I don't think playing on smurf is ethicly wrong if you don't try to get into a bracket that is below your skill. All of the pro players are forced to have smurf accounts. Smurfing only becomes a problem when you ruin games on purpose.

1