Debian 12 bookworm released
debian.org/News/2023/20230610Posted Jun 10, 2023, 11:27 AM UTC
36183
debian.org
Can't wait for LMDE 6
36
Mint should just fully switch to Debian.
51
Agreed.
2
Mint should free up resources from their devs and ditch Ubuntu & Cinnamon when Xfce releases their Wayland version.
-1
Cinnamon is their baby, 0 chance of them ditching it unless their developers all get hit by the same bus. Iirc last time I checked they were happy being in the slow lane and want to take their time with the (significant) rewrite to support Wayland.
I can see them moving to a Debian base install if it saves them work ripping things out of Ubuntu, but there's probably a balance to be found somewhere- the effort of removing bits of Ubuntu Vs the effort of adding bits to Debian.
11
Cinnamon is their baby
They started that as a response to how unsatisfactory both early GNOME 3 and their Mint GNOME Shell Extensions (not to be confused with GNOME Shell extensions which iirc only came even later) were at being a successor to basically Mint MATE.
My gut feeling tells me that if/when they decide to move to wayland they might just kind of rebase on a newer version of GNOME (to whatever extent that description makes sense), but this is after so many years of not using Mint anymore.
Edit: actually instead of dissatisfaction Cinnamon might have just been a rename of MGSE. Either way I can't believe it's already more than a decade ago lol.
1
Xfce releases their Wayland version.
Instead of simply moving to Xfce/LXDE/KDE after GNOME 2 and MGSE they forked GNOME 3. If they're going to drop Cinnamon for Wayland-related reasons I think they'd sooner have another go at shipping a customised GNOME than go Xfce-only.
Maybe they'll even find a way to make Wayfire work with MATE apart from Marco. Imho that arguably defeats Cinnamon's raison d'etre.
Edit: fwiw so did MATE and yet here we are. So ig not.
3
Once you're out of that newbie phase, why even use Mint? What does it offer which debian doesn't?
-25
Cinnamon as a first class citizen + some nice GUI tools as standard + pretty theme ootb. You could recreate it but why go to the effort?
Using Mint over vanilla Debian (or any other distro) isn't a mark of being a "newbie" and I will die on this hill.
26
IMHO Mint's theme looks like Linux equivalent of Windows 8.
1
I get a Win 7 vibe but yes, Cinnamon in general is very Windows-y. Personally that's what I'm used to and most efficient with, and that's probably true of a lot of people who "grew up" on Windows.
3
Mint is much more polished than any stock Debian release. The devs of Mint also see the value in a strong user experience as well as making sure everything "just works."
The weird macho-mantra of "Mint is only for noobs" is a bonafide myth. It's an S-tier Linux distro.
16
So I've been using Linux since like 2008, I haven't had a windows partition in years, but I still wouldn't consider myself a Linux expert. I love Debian, but it's a chore to configure everything on a new machine. From setting up nonfree drivers for wifi, setting up printing with CUPS, configuring sources.list, there's always been a lot of stuff to do on a fresh Debian install for me. LMDE and other more "newbie friendly" Debian spins come with defaults that make sense and cut down on the time I have to spend setting up my system and I can get straight to using it.
10
Bookworm solves almost all these issues.
1
Newer software and better themes out of the box. Cinnamon desktop environment also seems to be smoother/better supported on Mint than Debian.
9
If you like Cinnamon, absolutely no reason not to use LMDE where it gets updated.
9
It's like what I experienced on android. I used to do modding stuff, custom roms, root, LSposed but that was long ago when I was young or so. Now I just want something to work.
I'm not sure if i explained it well enough.
6
This is where the fun begins
28
Python 3.11 and PHP 8.2, along with newer releases of PostgreSQL and Nginx, is very exciting. It will be a great platform to build web apps on.
21
Newer versions of everything, Linux 6.1 kernel... It will be a breath of fresh air.
6
Node 12 to 18 is huge
1
It's a shame GNOME 44 wasn't included in this release.
8
That's because 44 was released after the freeze cycle. March 22 2023
2023-02-12 - Milestone 2 - Soft Freeze
no new packages, delayed migration
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2023/01/msg00004.html
38
why, 43 to 44 is pretty minor
14
This is probably a small problem for most, but for me... GNOME 43 had a bug where thumbnails for videos wouldn't show on HiDPI displays in nautilus. It was fixed by GNOME 44, and I'm really hoping that Bookworm has the patch to correct this issue. If it does, I'll probably be switching my production machine over to Debian.
I'm guessing for most people this isn't a huge problem, but I do a fair amount of video editing and it really helps to have the thumbnails when I am visually scanning through a folder for the right video clip.
6
yeah, that's annoying. presumably you'd be able to grab the gnome packages from testing that you need after a while.
2
Well then you no longer have a stable Debian 12 system.
1
It might be minor but I really like 44's improvements. Especially the Bluetooth Quick Settings which save me a lot of time.
2
I'm disappointed that they didn't include Cinnamon as one of the prepackaged DEs.
1
I think you can download on install during the package selection. I'm going to install it with it.
8
If I remember correctly from Debian 11, Cinnamon wasn't as good on Debian as it is on Mint. A lot of the good themes are missing out of the box. It's my favorite desktop environment because it's kind of a compromise between KDE and MATE.
2
It's my favorite desktop environment because it's kind of a compromise between KDE and MATE.
Mine as well.
2
Cinnamon has a ISO.
1
[deleted]
1
Probably for the better. For some reason, Gnome 44 cannot remember whether apps should be minimized or maximized based on the last time you used it.
1
Lol. No GNOME 44? It came out many months ago afair
-13
Debian had its package freeze for 12 well before this though afaik.
17
Bookworm has been in development for around 2 years and will be supported for 5 more years if you include LTS. The 2 months since gnome 44's release is a small blip on debian time scales and way too late into bookworm's cycle.
10
So what's the new Testing name?
7
Trixie is new codename for debian 13
24
When I saw that it reminded me of the character from television series Deadwood.
3
It's a reference to a character from Toy Story (all Debian codenames are from Toy Story).
11
Good to know that...Dumas
...The Shawshank Redemption
1
Though, in addition to the Toy Story character, it reminds me of the pony in MLP:FiM :P
1
usrMerge is a good one
There is a broken link on the news page. This is the wiki https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
There are so many parts of the Linux directory layout that drive me crazy.
Here is a good read on why this insanity MUST die... http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html
5
My server keeps crashing, during some part of the upgrade process..
Reboots a whole bunch of times, eventually shows a bunch of "clearing orphaned inode" messages, then the login prompt..
I may need to get the ISO and reinstall...
Nope... ISO reboots too when finishing the NIC detection (text mode installer).
Will reinstall 11.7.... Humm... Argh
3
Maybe someone can help me out here:
When Bullseye released, I remember hearing that it would be not-totally-stable for a while until some of the initial bugs were worked out. Is this accurate? Should I wait a couple weeks before going all in on Bookworm?
3
Is Gnome Debian worth using for development?
I used to use fedora but my Internet cannot keep up with the quick updates.
EDIT: Wrote Gnome instead of Debian for some reason.
2
Your DE/WM have 0 impact on "development", unless I guess you're developing for the DE or DE components themselves. Use what you like, use what you're comfortable with, use what works for you.
18
My main idea was regarding the packages and how old they are, that's all.
1
Ah, that isn't related to Gnome, instead the packages in the Debian stable repos. This release is fairly current, but it will begin to fall behind in the next few months. The answer is probably 'It depends". If you need the latest and greatest then Debian won't be for you, although you can always install the development tools you need through other means (debian-backports, Flatpak/Snap/AppImage, Nix, a lanuage manager like rvm or asdf, or via the language's package management system e.g. Pip venv).
3
Dude, I am a moron, for some reason I wrote Gnome when I meant Debian, and I have no idea how....
Your first reply makes much more sense now.
I apologize for being a dum dum, and thanks for the info.
11
It does make a difference in what libraries you'll most likely use.
1
I'm not sure I'm following- the packages Debian provides will make a difference when developing, but the Desktop Environment won't (i.e. Gnome, which was the question).
2
Oh, my mind substituted Debian for Gnome.
1
That's exactly what I meant, but still, maybe I should've written it in my comment.
So, what do YOU think about Gnome for programming? :)
1
Depends on who your target audience is, I guess?
1
One advantage of dev on Debian is that the dependencies tend to be already available on other distros, so portability becomes easier than if you had developed on a bleeding edge system.
3
[removed]
1
Maybe you could try CentOS
1
Awesome news indeed. Looking forward to using it!
2
how do I get from Debian 12 Testing to 13 Testing?
1
If your sources are already pointing to testing then you're good to go. If your sources are pointing at bookworm then you need to update them to either "Trixie" or testing (they're the same sources).
There will be a lot of movement all at once now that the freeze is over so it might be worth waiting a week or two to see how things shake out, but tbh Debian testing is usually very stable .
3
thanks! I'll wait then, because I depend on my computer in the next 2 weeks, so if something doesn't work out I won't have time to fix it.
You're talking about the sources in /etc/apt/sources.list, aren't you?
1
Yep!
2
Debian 12 Bookworm is working great here. Not problems at all. Kudos to the development team :)
1
Figures right when I install LMDE 5 on a bunch of computers, Debian comes out with a new release....welp. Time to prep for another round of upgrading...
-2
Figures right when I install LMDE 5 on a bunch of computers, Debian comes out with a new release....welp. Time to prep for another round of upgrading...
It was announced a while back that June 10 was going to be it's release date.
7
$ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get upgrade $ sudo apt-get full-upgrade
5
Debian is not as user friendly as Ubuntu, the DD's put out a checklist of stuff for this upgrade.
-1
Mint has a nice GUI tool for updates/upgrades iirc, but there's always the CLI commands as outlines by another commenter.
2
Debian 12 isn't actually available for download yet. This is just the associated release announcement.
Yes. I'm waiting for the release to help seed the torrents
Doing the lords work
I'm Doing My Part
Would you like to know more?
When will it be released exactly?
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-12.0.0-amd64-netinst.iso
Now. :)
I suppose a nightly is good enough or changing your repos and doing a dist upgrade
They have RC isos, I think those will be easier to work with.
[removed]
Some mirrors have the ISO installers,
My primary mirror anyways has the bookworm packages.