r/sydney•
tryx

Hard won tips to consider when getting back your rental bond, aka, how do I cite NCAT

To start, I am neither a lawyer, or an accountant, or an REA. I especially not your lawyer, accountant, or REA. I did however just go through an unnecessarily annoying process to convince my outgoing REA about my rights on getting my bond back, and I thought it might save you some heartache.

It involved diving well into the weeds of NCAT case law which the system does not make easy to find. I am also an owner. I think it's important for everyone on both sides of the equation to know their rights and have them represented.

Some Basics:

What is your rental bond?

Your rental bond is cash that you put down at the beginning of your lease to protect the owner against potential damage done to the property by you while you live there? It can legally be no more than 4 weeks of rent and in practice will always be 4 weeks of rent.

How do I get my bond back?

Your rental bond is not held by your REA or the owner. It is held in trust for you for when you move out. If you are renting in the last few years, it will be held by Rental Bonds Online for you. If you have a very old lease that predates RBO, it will be held as a paper bond. You will need to fill in this form to reclaim your bond.

Now here's a bit of a secret: Whoever claims the bond first starts a 2 week clock. Once that clock is started, the number on the form is what gets returned to the tenant, unless it is disputed. You really really want that number to come from you, and you want it to be your full bond amount.

Tip 1: As soon as your keys are returned, submit your bond return.

But my landlord is claiming that I damaged things!

This is where things get interesting.

Tip 2: in general, don't be a dick. If you really damaged things, try to get them fixed. Don't be that tenant that means your landlord will never rent out to parents/young people/pet owners again.

But what if you didn't damage things, what if you just lived in the property like any normal human would and now some things are a bit scuffed? If you take the most obvious reading of the tenancy act, you are not responsible for fair wear and tear. fair trading does a pretty piss poor job of explaining what fair wear and tear is, so let me show you the best resource I have found at your disposal.

These brochures written up by the Eastern Area Tenant Service are amazing. I am in no way affiliated with them, but they have done an absolutely bang-up job. They cover in detail, point by point what case law is relevant for various parts of your property and what NCAT has ruled on in the past. These are very hard to find find resources, so I cannot be more grateful for the work they have done here assembling this.

Tip 3: read the brochure that covers your damage But you have one major secret weapon that very very tenants know about. Lets go on a quick diversion into accounting land.

What the hell is depreciation?

(if you are an accountant, please don't hurt me, this is a hilariously simplified explanation)

As much as landlords try to pretend that this isn't the case, a rental property is a business. That's why rental properties are eligible for negative gearing in the first place. When you buy an asset (a thing with value) for a business, you don't instantly get to write off the whole purchase as a tax write when you buy it. Rather, the ATO has figured out what the expected life-span for any common asset is.

You are allowed to write off the amount that your asset has lost value this year as a tax write-off. This is depreciation. Say you have a van that cost 50k and has an expected lifespan of 10 years. You can write off 5k of its value each year as depreciation. When you hit 10 years, there is nothing left to depreciate.

So what?

All that stuff in your property? The carpet? The floors? The paint? They are all assets with a life span. And as much as your landlord would like you to, they are not eligible for new for old replacement. The real kicker is this. When an asset is fully deprecated, it's replacement cost is accounted at zero. If you damage a 10 year old carpet, you cannot be held liable for any damage because legally, the replacement cost of this asset is literally zero. It is, from an accounting point of view, worthless.

My rental agent will never believe this!

You're right, they won't. And they will absolutely push back. If you followed tip 2, the clock is already against them.

Tip 4: Rental agencies will typically charge around $200 an hour to represent an owner at NCAT, make it not worth their time.

NCAT case law is fairly readable, but not so easy to find. Once you have found the relevant case via the brochures, you can pull it up on austlii to find whether it really does apply to you. I've done the work for you in the case of carpets and wall-paint which are your most common claims.

Walls

Your case is Acevska v Foss (Tenancy) [2010] NSWCTTT 541 The relevant section of the ruling is

I find that the deemed life of paint in a rental property would generally be between 7 to 10 years. The evidence indicates that except for some patch up work on the second bedroom ceiling and entry the property has not been repainted in this time. I therefore find that the landlord would not be entitled to be compensated for any losses incurred for repairing/repainting the pinpricks and the gyprock, the minor dents and pinpricks noted would form part of the preparation work for the usual repainting of the premise. I find therefore that even if the pin pricks and damaged gyprock (which is very small) are beyond fair wear and tear, the landlord has not suffered any loss. This is because of the fact that it has been 10 years since the walls were last repainted and therefore either in excess or equal to the deemed life of the paint

Carpets

Your case is Barrera v Meyer [2003] NSWCTTT 57 The relevant section of the ruling is

Carpet is deemed to have a life of approximately 10 years and is depreciated over that lifespan. The Tribunal finds that the landlord is not entitled to the cost of replacement carpet or of any portion of that sum as the carpet had reached the end of its deemed life. The landlord had therefore not suffered any real loss. The claim is therefore disallowed.

Disclaimer

(If you are a lawyer please correct me, I am speaking to the best of my understanding)

NCAT is not, like actual court, bound to its own precedent. It should rule similarly in similar cases but is not bound to. If you end up taking this to NCAT I can obviously not guarantee any results.

I also cannot guarantee that this will not :

  • Blacklist you from returning to your current REA
  • Blacklist you from finding future property
  • Land you on some secret industry watch-list

Posted Jul 21, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

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nickfj•

Thanks - great post - invaluable. As a tenant you always feel so vulnerable and all this information helps redress that imbalance.

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daaaaave_k•

This post should be pinned.

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TheDevilsAdvokaat•

Gonna bookmark it myself ... :-)

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fionsichord•

This is so useful- thanks! I’ve lived in my place for over 10 years and only the carpet is newer than that. I feel fine about the wear and tear now!

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Nah mate.

The replacement cost of fully depreciated assets is not zero.

You cant go down to local Hilton Hotel and walk about with the chairs, carpet, silverware and claim you’re not liable to pay anything because they’re fully depreciated.

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tryxOPI am a butt face•

Not your lawyer, especially if you're robbing Hilton for their used carpets.

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SilverStar9192shhh...•

Nice job, have bookmarked this for future "how do I get my bond back" questions - I particularly like the way you have framed the two week "clock." Too many tenants are unaware that they should be the first to file to request their bond back, particularly in cases where there hasn't been a joint inspection at the end of the tenancy, followed by agreement on the bond amount to be returned . They think they have to wait for the REA's inspection at some future date, which is wrong. The REAs are lazy and often won't agree to a joint inspection right away, that's fine but must not stop the tenant from filing for their bond right away once the tenancy ends.

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kernald31•

While I understand the sentiment, it also depends on the relationship you have with the REA I think. I moved out a bit over a month ago, and waited for the agent to do their inspection (I took heaps of photos myself). They took a bit over a week, asked me if I had photos showing a stain on the carpet from the moving in property condition report (which I provided, but really it could have been a photo from the week before, they'd have been none the wiser...), I got my full bond back that same day. Mind you, I stayed 5 years in that place, everything always went really smoothly with them when some maintenance/repairs were needed, and went with the cleaners they recommended, so the circumstances were quite good. My point is, I guess, tenants shouldn't necessarily be the first to file the request, it might throw a spanner in an otherwise good relationship with the REA.

Of course, the key point is to have a good REA from the start, which seems to be extremely hard in Sydney. I definitely consider myself lucky and will miss dealing with them...

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mackasfour•

Thanks for the write up and reminder to get my RBO access sorted. I'm about to move out of a place in a week, only thing I'm slightly worried about is the shower clearly wasn't sealed properly when it was built so a bit of mould has gotten under the screen and you can see a bit of discolouration. It's impossible to reach and the rest of it is spotless, I've also told them about it so it should be fine.

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kernald31•

I'm not fully clear on what you're describing, but one thing that might work depending on your situation: take toilet paper, soak it in bleach, and put it everywhere where the mould could get oxygen from. Leave it there for 10-12h, and do not touch or move it in any way during that time. My understanding is that while bleach is usually regarded as a bad way to treat mould because a quick application tends to discolour the mould but not kill it, mould does need oxygen to survive. So by leaving the bleach for that long, you'll effectively both kill it and probably discolour it even if you can't reach it directly. I might be wrong, I'm no professional cleaner, but had (from what I understand) a similar situation a few months ago and that seemed to work fine - I moved out something like three months after and it was still spotless, making me think the mould was effectively dead.

Also, careful if you're going to leave bleach for that long, tiles and glass will be fine, but e.g. stainless steel won't be.

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Ledge_Hammer•

Legend!!!!

Worth it's weight in tenancy bonds!!

Cheers :D

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WTF1972•

Experienced property manager here and tenant advocate here

You are pretty much right but paint and carpet depreciation is a funny one and only comes into play if something is replaced and not repaired.

If the landlord only paints one or two walls (say your kid scribbled on or damaged just one wall in a few different rooms) and not the entire house or room then the NCAT will consider that a repair not a replacement no matter how old the paint. Repaint the entire room and it needs to be adjusted for depreciation.

Same with carpet or laminate planks, if you damaged a section of carpet and the owner cuts out that section and replaces it with an undamaged bit of carpet from inside a wardrobe or replaces just the damaged planks it's a repair not a replacement and you will be held liable. Replace the flooring in the entire room and depreciation comes into play.

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tryxOPI am a butt face•

So glad to have an expert cross-check for me!

That's some really useful context, do you know of any cases I could follow-up on? My interpretation of Acevska would suggest that repairs of fully depreciated assets would not be covered, given the specific wording of "repaired / replaced" but again, given the lack of binding precedent I know not to put too much weight on just one ruling.

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WTF1972•

Only cases I have lost 😜

A fictional example is if you moved into a brand new home and lovingly cared for it for 10 years but when you moved out it became clear you loved your partner a bit too much and the wall behind the bedhead has been damaged from the bedhead bouncing off the wall for 10 years.

The rest of the paint in the home is still serviceable so the owner patches the gyprock and paints the wall, the tribunal member will award the full cost of that repair and paint because it's beyond fair wear and tear and the owner can't claim depreciation on that.

I had a case where I charged a tenant for repainting a few walls in the house that had been scribbled on and all 4 walls in the kids room. The member ruled that the tenant had to pay the full cost of the individual walls but my arguments re the entire room fell on deaf ears.

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Wow, what the heck?! That makes zero sense. At least some costs were recouped but awful to have not won that particular argument. NCAT got that wrong :(

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WTF1972•

I argued that when the owner went to repaint the rest of the 4 bedroom home they would be repainting this room at the time so that's why we should get the entire cost now and I got a response along the line "I can't make a ruling based on the owners preferred repainting schedule"

The member was correct but that's how it goes.

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kernald31•

So what you're saying is, if you're staying in a home for 10 years and damage a wall, make a point to damage all the others as well before you leave? Obviously /s, but it feels illogical at best. (I absolutely believe you, I'm not questioning what you're saying, to be clear)

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WTF1972•

You don't damage the wall, just the paint. It will mean you can't be charged for repainting but you will get a shit reference and renting again will be a challenge. Best to just pay for the one wall to be fixed and accept that it's your damage.

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PeterGarrettChantingOilsOils•

They changed a bunch of the laws in 2020, they seem to be mostly better for the tenant. eg. breaking a fixed lease is a lot easier and cheaper than it used to be

https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-property/renting/new-residential-tenancy-laws#break

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