r/asoiaf•
LChris24

"Evil" Counselors: A Potential Seed for Young Griff's Downfall (Spoilers Extended)

EXTENDED

"Evil" Counselors: A Potential Seed for Young Griff's Downfall

Trust no one, my prince. Not your chainless maester, not your false father, not the gallant Duck nor the lovely Lemore nor these other fine friends who grew you from a bean. Above all, trust not the cheesemonger, nor the Spider, nor this little dragon queen you mean to marry. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, 'tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end." -ADWD, Tyrion VI

While across the series we have seen characters on our "good" side of the shade of gray use evil characters to achieve a goal or agenda, one thing I noticed is that plenty of the characters surrounding Young Griff either have an agenda (as does everyone) or could be seen as "evil" in some way.

Background

Young Griff (one of my favorite characters) has been setup as the perfect prince, a Saviour coming in on a white horse to heal a bleeding Westeros. While he does come across as a great guy (albeit a dragon), that doesn't mean that his "trusted" advisors have to be as well.

Varys & Illyrio

From their conversation in the secret passage beneath the Red Keep, the ADWD, Epilogue and Illyrio's conversations with Tyrion in ADWD, a picture can be painted as to their goals and agendas for Westeros. While Varys does want "peace" he wants peace with Young Griff on the Iron Throne.

Tell me, Lord Varys, who do you truly serve?"

Varys smiled thinly. "Why, the realm, my good lord, how ever could you doubt that? I swear it by my lost manhood. I serve the realm, and the realm needs peace." -AGOT, Eddard XV

Jon Connington

JonCon (who was in love with Rhaegar) wants to sit Rhaeagar's son on the Iron Throne no matter the cost. With greyscale, his time is running out and we already know he wants to get back at Varys:

What does a eunuch know of a man's honor? Griff had gone along with the Spider's scheme for the boy's sake, but that did not mean he liked it any better. Let me live long enough to see the boy sit the Iron Throne, and Varys will pay for that slight and so much more. Then we'll see who's soon forgotten. -ADWD, The Lost Lord

but he also could turn into a butcher (a la Tywin Lannister) in order to succeed:

"There is where you're wrong," Myles Toyne had replied. "Lord Tywin would not have bothered with a search. He would have burned that town and every living creature in it. Men and boys, babes at the breast, noble knights and holy septons, pigs and whores, rats and rebels, he would have burned them all. When the fires guttered out and only ash and cinders remained, he would have sent his men in to find the bones of Robert Baratheon. Later, when Stark and Tully turned up with their host, he would have offered pardons to the both of them, and they would have accepted and turned for home with their tails between their legs."

He was not wrong, Jon Connington reflected, leaning on the battlements of his forebears. I wanted the glory of slaying Robert in single combat, and I did not want the name of butcher. So Robert escaped me and cut down Rhaegar on the Trident. "I failed the father," he said, "but I will not fail the son." -ADWD, The Griffin Reborn

The Golden Company

While the captains of the Golden Company (a legit professional army) are "disciplined", they still are soldiers who take spoils of war:

Promises of land and promises of gold may suffice for some, but Strickland and his men will expect first claim on the choicest fields and castles, those that were taken from their forebears when they fled into exile. -ADWD, The Griffin Reborn

Theorized

I don't necessarily think all of these "evil"/darker shade of gray characters end up on Team Young Griff, but I've read at least one good theory on all of them so:

  • Darkstar (A common theory is that Darkstar could steal Dawn and support Young Griff's claim)
  • Qyburn (Qyburn is a grifter who latches onto whoever he can to survive, he "replaced" Varys, lets see what happens here as Varys "hates magic")
  • Littlefinger (I think Sansa's plotline heads north, but if it does head south, Littlefinger is meddling here for sure)
  • Aurane Waters (Another character (maybe not evil but at least dangerous) trying to climb the social ladder, he fled with Cersei's fleet and was setup in the Stepstones - potentially already encountering Young Griff/The Golden Company)
  • Elia Sand (Not necessarily a counselor or evil, but she could definitely wreck some havoc on an of Young Griff's potential marriages. If interested: What is Lady Lance going to ruin in TWOW)

Just something small I noticed, no idea which one or just a culmination of all them. And as I said plenty of "good" characters make use of bad ones (Robb and Vargo Hoat, etc.) to achieve a goal, but outside of minor characters like Duck and some of the other characters aboard the Shy Maid, most of Young Griff's immediate counselors seem to be ones that have questionable morals.

TLDR: Young Griff should likely be successful in TWoW only later to fall (potentially fighting for/against Dany in the Second Dance of the Dragons). As Young Griff is seemingly a pretty good guy, this downfall could be due to the people he surrounds himself with. At a minimum he has scheming Varys/Illyrio and greyscale ridden JonCon. The potential exists for a few others.

Posted Sep 1, 2023, 12:40 PM UTC

18
Loading comments…