By giving the Shaido the "travelling boxes" and scattering them, he inadvertently set into motion the events that would become the "Malden" plotline, a.k.a. the darkest plotline. Therefore filling me, and a lot of you, with the most aggravation and rage, he did more to create chaos than a sa'karnen or a full circle of 72 channelers could ever hope to accomplish.
Posted Nov 11, 2023, 7:58 PM UTC
I wouldn't say he was the most effective. But he was a very good chess player and strategist. He did well spreading chaos true that.
However I for one wouldn't have minded the shaido being completely broken by the asha'man at Dumai wells and going back to the three fold land
Yes! Almost every Perrin plot line is a tedious slog after that.
If the show weren’t a steaming pile of shit there’s actually a lot to improve along those lines. My pitch would be have faile get taken at dumai’s wells by Traveling shaido (instead of much later) and speed run a lot of the ghealdan and masema stuff.
Honest truth, my first time reading through the series, I put down the ninth or tenth book ‘cause I got sick reading about yet another Shaido battle. A couple months later, I go back and start that book from the beginning and get through it only to find out I stopped reading it one chapter before Trollocs make a sudden return and the Shaido gtfo.
Perrins payoff is the hammer though. Such a perfect scene.
I never read Perrin POV’s when I reread the series. With a few exceptions.
I dunno man. D did a pretty great thing recruiting an entire nation filled with Channelers.
Yes, I was joking, I just am doing a reread and have reached the Malden part, and I started asking myself some serious questions. Like whose fault is it that I am reading this right now? Is it my fault, or RJ's? Is it Perrins fault, or Failes? Sevanna? Someryn? Rolan? Nope it's Sammael. I also really like RJ's about face on Taimendred and what happened at the last battle, I have had this username/gamertag since 2003.
Demandred was also responsible for Dumai's Wells, considering he was actually Taim in disguise during that book before Jordan changed his mind.
Would be the same if he was directing Taim.
That plot always felt a bit deus ex machina to me since it happened entirely off screen.
I agree. They should have had more "news" come from the sharan lands. Even have some of the aiel recommend Rand check it out. Or even the sea folk mention it. Them rand gets pissed because he is having a hard time dealing with the nation in the main area. Then they dont bring it up. Its like they finally got a truce going finally for the last battle. Everyone is on the same page, and then, oh no, a new enemy has arrived.
There were scenes written for Towers of Midnight (I believe, it may have been one of the other Sanderson books), but they were deleted for brevity sake.
Asmodean gave Couladin his tattoos, thus setting up the Aiel division. Obviously more effective lol
If it didn't end up with him being killed in the pantry with a candlestick, I might agree.
Ha! Good one. I liked Amso more though. Something about the bad guy being forcibly tied to the good guy’s team as a plot device is inherently compelling.
Asmodean plays a large role in why Book 4 is in my top 3 of the series. RJ wrote him so well.
He might have achieved a lot more if he hadn't run... short of book time. He wasn't one to... shrink away from conflict, that's for sure. I guess achieving more was too much of a tall order
He couldn’t reach the top, that’s for sure. At the height if his power, he was still below the bar. But in fairness, maybe had Lews Therin given him a leg up in the AoL, it would have boosted his confidence and he never would have descended into the Shadow.
Demandred was able to completely unfuse himself with Mazrim Taim, frame Graendal for the murder of Asmodean, and become a completely different person that showed up at the very end with entire nation worth of channelers.
Demandred and Taim are the only ones that aren't riding in the clown car.
This just reminds that I started reading these books over 30 years ago and I have little recollection what happens
Ya, what was sammaels plan for rand? I've completely forgotten sammaels whole plot line, lol.
Shadar Logoth Balefire duel at midnight.
God dammit they wild wested us again. There's always a cowboy hat if you look hard enough.
Sammael was trying to do what Demandred actually managed to do. Raise a nation to fight under him at the last battle. That's why he asked Rand for a truce, used the shaido to sow chaos and keep Rand busy.
He hoped Rand would ignore him until the last battle. Kind of hard to do when illain was a neighbor to two of the nations Rand held at that time.
He set traps in illain Incase Rand came, where he would lead him to shadar logoth and finish him off.
Semirhage tried that too. She sort of failed but did in fact leave the Seanchan in Seanchan with a bloody succession war and prevented their help in the last battle.
Ohh right! I've read the series multiple times and have forgotten so much!
He did have a good plot line!
I am sorry that so few people got the intent behind your post. I chuckled. Thumbs up.
Thank you. So long as 1 person gets it, then my work here is done.
Most Forsaken are decent at the "the Lord of Chaos must rule" part. Its the easiest.
Yeah thats just break shit. None of them are able to build anything worthwhile.
He is also my favie and peeps always make fun of him. He got more done than any other forsaken, but his end wasn’t as fun or glorious, so we have to pretend he was a joke or something.
I misread the name of this sub as referring to The Dark Tower series by Stephen King, and was so confused by this post. I was like "Jesus, it has been a long time since I read those books, I don't remember any of that."
It's been a while, but wasn't it Graendal's idea?
Demandred was the most effective forsaken, and it was by some distance. Following him is probably Taim, then Semirhage, then Sammael, then Mesaana.
The rest were worthless.
If Demandred hadn’t gone and completely subjugated a continent the size of Randland, and brought their hundreds of channelers, the light probably wins in a rout.
Taim’s black tower was also critical.
Semirhage aaaaaalmost turned Rand.
Mesaana broke the white tower.
Ishamael I put in a different category entirely.
Aginor and belthamel really respawned just to get clapped by complete happenstance. All lanfear did was simp. Asmodean and Moghedien were actually negative contributors since they made the forces of light stronger.
Rahvin lost to plot Armor tho. But that's what happens when the author literally grants the protagonist plot armor by making him taveren
He also had the best defense plan against Rand. Honestly if Moridin hadn't intervened, his plan might have worked.
Ravin had also won if it were not for plot armor.