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r/Iteration110Cradle•
TypicalMaps

[ALL] EOS Lindon and Powerscaling Madness

SpoilerWillverse

Does anyone else feel like Lindon's scaling at the end of the series makes no sense whatsoever? The longer I sit and think about it the more questions I have.

The source of my confusion is twofold. The first being when Lindon manifests his Dreadgod weapons Li Markuth states that all of Iteration 110 shook.

I'm not sure what Will intended this to mean but from my perspective we have only see the word Iteration used for universal level feats. Which raises the questions, why are the Dreadgod weapons that strong, especially since only Wavedancer had a binding in it? Why is Lindon's spirit strong enough to support weapons of that caliber with a mere 5 Dreadgods worth of strength?

It can't be that the collective might of the Dreadgods are capable of effecting an entire universe because the Monarchs would scale to 1/5 of that power, which wouldn't make any kind of sense as their best feats are multi-continental. It can't even be that each subsequent Dreadgod death is an exponential power boost as we see when Lindon, empowered by the death of two Dreadgods, fails to kill Shen after smashing his skull in, hitting him with two streams of Blackflame and redirecting another Dreadgod level attack into him. No only does Shen not die, but he's still in the fight after this happens.

Which opens up another can of worms because the weak echo of Ozmanthus nearly kills Shen in one attack so how the fuck did he survive Lindon smashing him between Dreadgods that were empowered thrice over.

​

Lets say that Li Markuth's statement means that Lindon is planetary instead of universal. Given the power that Monarchs and Dreadgods have shown throughout the series it makes much more sense. That leads into my second problem, the fact that Lindon is boxing with a Class-Two Fiend after ascending.

I'm well aware of Will comment on the matter, implying Lindon cannot kill it on his own. However, the fact that Lindon's techniques and Will are capable of effecting and resisting the Fiend and the fact that Cha'tur'niak didn't just instantly unmake Lindon, the person getting in the way of its meal, implies a level of relativity between the two even if the Fiend is stronger. So at best a Class-Two Fiend after eating most of a world would only be a few times stronger than a planetary Lindon.

As you might've guessed I have a problem with this as well. In The Captain, Will's newest series, we see a baby stellar dragon casually exist at the core of a star, cause a supernova with its birth, take no damage and proceed to eat said star. So if Lindon is planetary and a Fiend is only a few times stronger that would mean a non-ascended baby stellar dragon with no magic would be several thousand times stronger than either of them. What the fuck is happening????

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Posted Nov 20, 2023, 12:12 AM UTC

1138
Bee-Beans•

I think you’re over-scaling the Dreadgod weapons a bit. They are metaphysically heavy, cause reality to flex and quake in their presence due to their Signficance, which is a product of their history as much as it is a product of raw power. Once we hit Abidan level, we’re working with conceptual power. The raw energetic output of an attack is just one part of what makes it significant and therefore effective. Ozmanthus does not almost kill Shen with the crown, he knocks him out of the sky and breaks the portal.

We don’t know much about the stellar dragon, but considering it’s from a setting with whole ass magic, with a fairly open-ended system, there is something besides raw durability that allows the baby dragon to survive and absorb a star.

32
TypicalMapsOP•

"Either way he wasn't returning to Sacred Valley, that echo had almost killed him."

If the Dreadgod weapons significance is what grants them that much power than the living Dreadgods should also have that significance which means either physically or conceptually it doesn't matter the Dreadgods would scale to the weapons formed from their own bodies.

3
CaterpillarVisual553Team Little Blue•

I don’t remember super accurately, but I think at the end Lindon couldn’t even fully unveil himself. He had the power of 5 Dreadgods in one spirit. A full unveil would’ve killed most of sacred valley.

But bringing out all his weapons at once seems like it would carry the weight of 4 Dreadgods being born into full power in an instant. I could see reality shaking for a moment with the gravity and significance of that.

9
TypicalMapsOP•

But its weight that Lindon's Spirit is capable of supporting with no strain at all. Which goes back into the fact that Monarch's would have to scale to 1/5 of that power simply because of how evenly matched they are before the Wraith dies.

1
CaterpillarVisual553Team Little Blue•

I thought the power scaled on an exponential scale each time a Dreadgod died? I thought it was like an order of magnitude each time one died. So one dies and Lindon is twice as strong. 2 die and he’s 4 times as strong. etc…

9
TypicalMapsOP•

What is the difference between destroying the sun with a technique and destroying it up with a conceptual working?

The end result, the feat that you would use to understand a characters level of power, to scale them, is the same. So even if Dreadgod weapons are only conceptually powerful enough to effect a universe it still effecting the universe physically, causing it to shake.

Essentially you scale a conceptual workings to the effect it has physically. If Ozriel erased a star with his authority his attack potency would still be star level because he has shown himself capable of destroying a star.

To put it another way, if character X punches a star and destorys it while character Y uses a magic spell to destory a star they are both in the same tier of power, star, even if the methods they used are different because the end physical result is the same.

I'm not scaling the Dreadgod weapons to universal the text does that, I'm saying it makes no sense for them to be that strong.

3
Ashamed-Subject-8573•

Answering the start of this,

Herald would be max level if they Way did not exist. Yes a cool amount of power, but nothing could really climb far above it.

Magic from each iteration is limited by the rules of that iteration.

Directly working with the Way transcends those limits

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CaterpillarVisual553Team Little Blue•

One thing to note is that we really have no concept of time passed after Lindon’s ascension and his battle with the Class 2 fiend.

Oz was a few thousand years old before he became Eithan. The epilogue with Lirin is the only thing that makes us think not much time has passed. But I have to imagine that ascended beings can have kids whenever they want.

So it’s conceivable that Lindon’s last chapter occurred long after his ascension. Could’ve been a hundred years, or a thousand. I don’t remember anything in the story that anchors that scene into a specific time period.

22
TypicalMapsOP•

That's what I wanted to assume but Will was asked that very question on the mega thread and answered that the fight is pretty soon after his ascension.

10
nobdy89•

Don't forget that monarch wasn't end of the power ladder. I expect once he ascended and had the full backing of Ozmanthus, he started tearing through Abidan training courses with the same feverish enthusiasm. Who knows how high his star ranking in each court's discipline was by the time of the fiend fight?

16
Antal_MariusTeam Ruby •

If it's Lindon, he's skipping on sleep again to train, and train more. To the point that Suriel has to whack him upside the head and knock him out.

6
CaterpillarVisual553Team Little Blue•

Whelp, then I have no clue haha.

A class 2 fiend should’ve wiped the floor with him. Maybe it was akin to fighting Dreadgods. Make it not worthwhile for them and they’ll move on. That sort of thing.

7
naysayernonsenseTeam Dross•

From what I understand you have 3 main points of contention:

  • The potency of Dreadgod weapons and thr shaking of iteration 110.

  • Lindon being able to handle such powerful weapons.

  • Lindon fighting a class "two" chaos fiend.

I'll try to answer each to the best of my ability.

Li Markuth when he fights Lindon is rattled, it's entirety possible he is overstating the impact Dreadgod weapons are having on reality.

It's also possible he isn't and as far as his senses go -- which could be planet wide or beyond -- London's weapons are shaking reality.

Furthermore, the weapons are not Dreadgods themselves; they are a distillation of their powers -- be it the power of core bindings or the body parts -- with all their significance and authority, combined with whatever extra Lindon adds on hisnown and other items he must have used in the soul forge to make those weapons.

A weapon usually has one core function and it is wielded for that purpose, and it also matters who is wielding it. In this case it is the man who himself is/was the strongest Dreadgod, has a Dreadgod body, and beat all Dreadgods. In his hands, the Dreadgod weapons are more effective than anyone else.

The above also answers why Lindon's spirit is able to handle weapons of such caliber. We also have to believe he didn't sit on his laurels for a year or two he was on cradle before ascending, he kept up with his advancement of Sage/Way powers and the building up of his Willpower and Authority.

Lastly, regarding the chaos fiend fight; after ascending, they must have learned from other energy systems and further built their powers, especially Lindon. "I advance" and "I, We will never stop" and all that.

Will also said that once you ascend under your own power, your origin of existence changes/upgrades/cements itself to the Way, or something to that effect. I'm choosing to believe that improves your ability to draw on the Way and enhances you significantly.

Besides chaos fiends are weird, some would be more offensively strong, some would sport more conceptual abilities, others would be slippery, hard to catch yet still devastating for iterations. Could be Lindon fought, or was sent to fight, the one he would be a good matchup for.

As far as I remember Chuturniak was continent sized, it could be argued that in terms of oure attack potency he isn't much beyond multi-plantery or solar system level. I think Lindon should br able to handle that.

P.S. Shen was definitely exaggerating for dramatic effect about Ozmanthus's echo. He was mostly caught unawares and doesn't like to fight head on. We see him survive worse punishment so no chance the echo's attack would have killed him.

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TypicalMapsOP•

I wish I could better put my thoughts into words. The main issue I have is that I don't believe Lindon should be strong enough to fight Class-Two Fiends after ascending.

Class-Two Fiends are right below Class-One Fiends who are designated Judge killers. Implying that Lindon, right after ascending, is one tier away from fighting people like Razael. Razael casually backhands a universal level attack from a group of Silverlords, Lindon should be more than one tier below her. Five Dreadgods worth of strength should not place him anywhere this level of power because the Monarch's scale to the Dreadgods nearly 1:1 when all five are alive. So that would imply that a Class-Two Fiend is only worth roughly 5 Monarchs.

"He understood for the first time the dilemma the Monarchs faced with the Dreadgods. They could fight on an almost even level,..."

We also know that the Dreadgods are sharing their power when one dies so its not like an exponential increase in strength after they die, they are equally dividing a set amount of power, it is linear.

So 10000 Monarchs to overwhelm and kill a Judge, assuming that the gap in strength between Class-One and Class-Two is four orders of magnitude? Monarchs who are barely multi-continental capable of beating people we've seen output universal levels of power? Even with a billion monarchs that shouldn't be possible.

Fiends are weird but if Cha'tur'niak wasn't a Class-Two Fiend in power the Abidan would've assigned it a lower Class rating.

It just doesn't make logical sense in my mind. Maybe I just don't understand the Abidan powers as well as I thought.

4
tndarisTeam Dross•

It just doesn't make logical sense in my mind. Maybe I just don't understand the Abidan powers as well as I thought.

If you want the real answer, it's that there isn't a pure logical scaling system behind the magic described in the Cradle books. While the progression and levels can feel pretty well defined, that clearly breaks down at the higher levels, which even Dross comments on at one point.

The reason you're struggling to logically explain it is because the scenes you're using as data points were very likely written not with logic in mind but the rule of cool in mind. Will has talked about that as part of his writing style. It's more important that the end of Cradle's 12 books has a scene of Lindon facing down what we know is a huge monster, that's cool not necessarily perfectly planned, calculated and logical. Same for the Li Markuth scene.

If you really want to nitpick things there are plenty well before Waybound. Lindon's entire advancement through Overlord and even Archlord are honestly ridiculous, they're faster than his advancement as Underlord. A lot of the gangs advancement in Waybound is also insane especially hitting Monarch. But again, all of that was done because of the rule of cool, and is not supported by a pure data driven logical system of magic.

11
TypicalMapsOP•

I shouldn't have said logical, that was a poor word choice. It doesn't make consistent sense in my mind with the feats shown by people on the level of Judges. I understand Will's desire for rule of cool but for every book up until this point the power felt consistent.

What makes the lord realm difficult is that the insight required to trigger the soulfire transformation is not public information.

But this feels less like the speed of advancement bothering me as the level of power granted by the advancement being inconsistent. To me, Lindon fighting the Class-Two Fiend feels like a newly advanced Underlord fighting a Monarch and not instantly dying.

I think part of the issue here is that we don't make much information about how Abidan ranks work as that was not part of the story. But even if we got that this would probably still bother me. Especially when you look at how meaningless Ascending was portrayed as. Yerin mentions nothing about her feeling different or improved or anything, its like it did absolutely nothing. You'd think Will would actually describe what it was like or what it did since the whole series was about Ascending from Cradle.

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naysayernonsenseTeam Dross•

I see two issues with your argument:

  1. We don't know how strong Lindon is when he fights the fiend.

  2. We don't know how strong the fiend is compared to the great elders.

But most importantly, your whole maths goes out the window at the upper levels of advancement, on Cradle and beyond.

I think it's incorrect to say 5 Monarchs are roughly equal to 5 Dreadgods are roughly equal to 1 EOS Lindon.

If that were the case, then a Herald and a Sage would be roughly equal to a Monarch, which we know isn't true.

When Will said the fiend fight wasn't too long after ascending, that could mean years and it would be correct. For Lindon who is on Ozriel and Judges trajectory of progression, that's enough time to amass plenty of extra power.

As we go higher the gap between ranks or tiers gets larger.

Compared to the gap between a Jade and a Lowgold, the gap between and Overlord and Archlord is astronomical.

That's exactly why Monarchs are several steps beyond a Sage or Herald.

Also, class 1 fiends aren't really Judge Killers in a sense that they are above Judges. It just means at their strongest they can operate at a similar level and tey can't be killed permanently under normal circumstances. They'd just be reborn in decades or centuries ot millennia.

So to extrapolate a level of class two fiends from that, and assuming they are close in strength to the great elders would be a reach imo.

While you can argue the progression is too fast on Cradle or from a reader opinion perspective the power creep became too much, and you'd be justified in that, I think Lindon fighting a fiend EOS isn't a problem. The time scale is vague enough and power levels are close enough that it works.

4
TypicalMapsOP•

I never meant to imply that they were above Judges, they are a relative threat to Judges. I merely call them Judge Killers because that's what Suriel's information requested in Blackflame calls them.

"A Class Two Fiend erupted from the Void like a twisted mutant serpent large enough to take bites out of planets. It swallowed Ozriel whole, but Gerravon wasn’t going to wait around to see the results. He ran. One of his Hands grabbed him, and when it opened a second later, he was on the bridge of one of the transport ships. A swirling portal into the dark Void opened in front of them Gerravon felt the trembling pulses of power throughout the universe and, in spite of himself, he cast his awareness behind."

This quote demonstrates two things clearly. A Class-Two Fiend is beneath a weakened and sealed Ozriel with no Mantle or Scythe and that a Class-Two Fiends power effects a significant amount of a universe.

Will's quote doesn't really lend itself to suggesting an significant amount of time has passed he says: "Shortly after ascending, yes, but there’s more to the situation than him just squaring off against it 1v1."

When all five Dreadgods were alive Northstrider thinks killing a Dreadgod was within the realm of possibility but would be a legendary feat. This is probably much closer to the truth of the matter than Lindon's opinion as a Underlord sage.

But that still implies that at most the Dreadgods are a few times stronger than a Monarch when each of them were alive.

But let's take this to an utterly extreme example. Let's say each individual Dreadgod is worth 100 Monarchs in power. By the end of the series Lindon would be worth 500 Monarchs of power. Monarchs best feats are multi-continental, so being worth 500 of them would put Lindon's power output at planetary. This is clearly a massive overestimation of how much stronger a Dreadgod is than a Monarch and even with that huge assumption Lindon's power would match the only other Class-Two Fiend we've seen do battle.

The gaps in advancement don't just get bigger and bigger as Will himself believes that the biggest jumps in power are either between True Gold and Underlord or Archlords and Sages. If each advancement was a bigger jump than the last the biggest gap would exist between Herald/Sages and Monarchs. But will doesn't see it this way.

https://abidanarchive.com/events/14/#e1160

1
lysian09Majestic fire turtle•

"But let's take this to an utterly extreme example. Let's say each individual Dreadgod is worth 100 Monarchs in power. By the end of the series Lindon would be worth 500 Monarchs of power."

I think you're thinking about it too linearly. Doubling your power doesn't mean you can fight two on one against the weaker version of yourself. We see this with the monarchs and the eight man empire. A monarch is something with sage powers and herald powers, so if we scale it as "twice as powerful means they can fight one vs two", then a sage and a herald working together should be able to match a monarch. But it takes four sages and four heralds with special armor to equal a single monarch.

If Lindon had power equivalent to 500 monarchs in one body, that doesn't mean 500 monarchs could beat him. That power being concentrated like that would mean none of the monarchs could even touch him.

3
naysayernonsenseTeam Dross•

Shortly after ascending, yes, but there’s more to the situation than him just squaring off against it 1v1.

If we go by this quote from Will, doesn't it render much of your argument rather pointless?

What are the things that would fall under "more to the situation"?

  • This fiend is on the weaker end of chaos two fiends. Entirely possible.
  • It's a good matchup for Lindon with Void Authority (useful for spatial shenanigans) against this particular fiend who is known as "devourer of dimensions" as opposed to someone like "Galaxy Eater" for instance. Just saying.
  • This is an extension of the previous point, but Lindon showed abilities no other Monarch has shown, like scooping out the entire labyrinth from Cradle into his personal void key and bring dozens of people if not more in such void key and ascending through the Way. So, his spatial authority is probably useful against a fiend like this.
  • Lindon would possibly only have to go 1v1 for a short time (relative to Abidan scale it could be days or weeks) before the rest of the Reapers or Eithan himself would arrive.
  • The fiend usually runs away back into the Void if it faces sufficient resistance, so Lindon doesn't necessarily need to enough offensive output to kill it.
  • In short, without looking into why, Lindon only needs a stalemate for a limited amount of time.

Besides, I'm pretty sure if you pit Lindon against a fiend like that without his Dreadgod weapons, he would lose. The gear is important.

Imo the mistake you're making is conflating the dreadgod itself with the weapon made from it. A weapon that is being wielded by someone of higher caliber than the dreadgod itself would be more potent.

Hypothetically, let's assume Fury can handle wielding these weapons for a week without needing rest, I would think he would be able to fight the fiend to a stalemate as an Abidan Wolf.

To answer your question of how powerful Lindon is EOS? I think with his gear, he'd solo start of series Cradle, that's how strong.

1
pepski7•

You're thinking too much in terms of powerscaling.

Each jump in power in the series is exponential, but more importantly, operates on a deeper/higher level of reality. For example, heralds are literally invulnerable to attacks that don't have conceptual willpower behind them.

Therefore, trying to apply maths of how many monarchs to blow up a universe compared to someone a couple of stages above doesn't make sense.

Secondly, the fiends by their nature defy logic and order, so any classification is rough as they literally don't fit within the rules of reality. They are everything below judge to above class 3 fiends which could be as strong as hedgehogs (could be wrong bur can't remember any power levels for them).

You can't compare the fiends to attack power as they could be nearly as strong as a class one, but all they do is slowly erode reality over decades, but they are very hard to completely remove. They mostly aren't going to hut you with a sword.

1
TypicalMapsOP•

Blackfalme does say that true Fiends, by their nature, are beyond classification but we never get an explanation for why Abidan proceed to uses a Class system anyway. So its possible that it truly means nothing at all, you could have a Class-Two Fiend weaker than a Herald. Or the Class designation could simply represent something other that power/authority/influence, though I think the information requested about the birth of the Mad King contradicts that. Oth'kimeth's Class was raised from Two to One once he started to feed on a reality.

I disagree with the idea that their power cant be measured simply because it is conceptual in nature because it effects physical reality/substance/matter. Ozriel using authority to erase a star would be no different than someone using a technique or spell or punching it to destroy a star. If the conceptual working touches upon physical reality, which they almost always do, they can be quantified physically.

But it the fact that I could be leaning to heavily into their classification tier as a means of representing their strength is a fair point and where I could be going wrong with this.

1
pepski7•

With the powerscaling of universal feats in cradle, its important to take how the underlying fabric of reality works in cradle. There are the normal laws like physics, then transcending them is aura, then soulfire, then conceptual power. So destroying a mountain on cradle is MUCH harder than doing the same to earth (assuming earth doesn't have magical properties).

This whole strength of reality is backed by human consciousness, where it is stronger the more humans are nearby. Will has also described the iterations as sort of fading at the edges. Basically, further from the planet, order and existence are weaker and are closer to mon-existence and chaos. So it is easier to break destroy stuff deep into space. Therefore, to destroy the universe in cradle, all you need to do is destroy the super huge and super durable planet, then without humans, it will slowly fall apart and dissolve.

So basically, none of it works really by adding up numbers to see how powerful someone is.

5
TypicalMapsOP•

I had no idea Will talked about Iterations being weaker at the edges but the fact that the central planet of an Iteration is somehow stronger than it should be was a conlusion I came to on my own. It was the only way I could make sense of things like the Mad King and Makiel clashing only causing earthquakes on Oasis' central planet. Or when Ozriel says a blow from Daruman should've blighted the planet instead of utterly annihilating it.

The only issue I ran into with this idea is that it would make it impossible for normal people to break things, cut down trees or mine, if the central planet was that physically sturdy. So it has to be a conceptual sturdiness from being the center of a universe. Which would mean that Judges are pathetically weak, physically speaking. Like ridiculously weak.

-2
unb0xedTeam Ruby •

You're completely justified in believing that the Class 2 Fiend feat at the end of Waybound was a tad bit too unbelievable given that Will said it happened relatively soon after his ascension, but it doesn't mean that the situation wasn't vague enough to make it implausible. Will saying it happened somewhat close to his ascension, to me at least, could be anything between 5 and 50 years in the future. It certainly doesn't break my suspension in disbelief, albeit him doing that within 5 years is absolutely outrageous.

I think the 6th point in your edit is the most important assumption you missed, but it doesn't just apply to the Abidan. The most wild statement I read was your scaling monarchs 1:1 to dreadgods in some of these comments. Where did you get that from? Power doesn't work like that in Cradle. Ozmanthus' existence is a testament to that. Scaling linearly just doesn't check out. Monarchs exist on a spectrum, all of the characters do, so to say the opposite would mean Ozmanthus is equal to someone like Malice or Miara even. We see multiple times throughout the series that a lone monarch can only hope to drive a slumbering dreadgod away. They don't entertain killing it. That's also when the dreadgods are at their absolute weakest.

Our interpretations of the Northstrider anecdote are vastly different as well. NS saying he doesn't view killing a dreadgod as impossible for him doesn't mean it's something I think should be accounted for when power scaling. I'm sure he could've cooked up a hair brained suicidal scheme to potentially kill a dreadgod with a lot of time and artifact crafting / assistance but it's just such a murky thing to scale with or from. If NS were to fight a DG in a duel, he would lose. The DGs are at least multiple times stronger than any average monarch. Key word being average. Ozmanthus being a pinnacle genius sacred artist would be capable of a lot more. Simply having the same advancement tier as someone else is not the same as both being equal in power.

3
TypicalMapsOP•

The 1 to 1 power thing comes from Bloodline where Lindon is watching Northstrider fight the Phoenix and finds it odd that, despite how close they are in power, the Monarchs dont just jump the Dreadgods together. That is to say Monarchs and Dreadgods are almost even when all five are alive but the second one falls Monarchs are getting out classed even when said power is split four ways and a significant chunk of power remains in the corpse and binding.

There was another comment where instead of a 1:1 between Monarch and Dreadgods I assumed that each Dreadgod was worth 100 Monarchs, which would barely get Lindon to planetary levels of force. This probably isn't a very good way to scale EOS Lindon regardless and Will definitely isn't thinking of this in the same numbers way that I am. He most likely focused on the conceptual authority stuff that I dont have enough information on to make soild claims.

1
unb0xedTeam Ruby •

I'm confused. Lindon questioning why all the monarchs don't band together and gank squad a dreadgod is being used to postulate NS = TBP? I might be misunderstanding what you've said.

In terms of power scaling EOS Lindon, I think it's a fruitless task and not something worth doing. We just don't know enough. The class 2 fiend 1v1 is plausible in world, contingent on some reasonable 'what ifs': Is he fighting to stall it? Does he counter its powers? Is it a very weak class 2 fiend? You can go on but there's just not enough to go off of to conclude how strong Lindon is with any accuracy. You'd assume if he was sent to fight it he at least has a chance of beating it but him doing so says little for his strength.

The power system being extremely fluid makes these things really hard to do. Can an Iron beat a Jade? Sure, it could happen. Are Irons now stronger than Jades? It's just stupid lol, fun to talk about though.

2
TypicalMapsOP•

Before I get mired down in this the 1:1 thing was a simplification for the argument as even if they were 1:100 it wouldn't really change the issue for me at the time. Their power would still be barely planetary. I could see it being close to 1:2 maybe, 1:3.

"Even so, Northstrider wasn’t overwhelmed. The battle was tilted against him, but not so terribly as Lindon had imagined. He understood for the first time the dilemma the Monarchs faced with the Dreadgods. They could fight on an almost even level,...The Monarchs were that close in power to the Phoenix; Malice had fought it more or less to a standstill for three days the last time..."

So at best a Dreadgod is a few times stronger than a Monarch, if that, based on what Lindon is seeing. Malice was also stale mating the Phoenix while holding back to protect her lands and trying to minimize the damage. The first time we see her use the full force of one of her techniques is in Dreadgod with the enforcer technique.

"Malice slammed her foot on the ground, and for the first time, Lindon saw the full power of a Monarch’s technique. A specter rose into the air behind Malice, an echo of power like an Icon."

But it's not this is super 100% reliable given that Lindon is still just an Underlord Sage. It's also important to note that the Dreadgods are not equal in terms of power which is something I legitimately just remembered. The Weeping Dragon is stronger than the Bleeding Phoenix and the Phoenix is stronger than the Silent King.

I understand the fluidity of power in the series but if we saw a Underlord rock up to a Monarch and one shot them we would say bullshit. Not to say that this is that EOS Lindon is that extreme but when I first made this post it felt very close to it.

2
livingstondh•

The Class 2 fiend is definitely an outlier, assuming not too much time passed (I kind of assumed it was after a year or two). However, Dreadgod weapons are on par with just about any other weapon there is. PLUS, Eithan and Lindon would have upgraded the shit out of his gear. He probably has some crazy Dreadgod/Reaper hybrid stuff now.

Also, with Consume he could progress incredibly quickly to that point.

2
TypicalMapsOP•

Another thing I didn't consider. Lindon beefing them up with Abidan tier materials is absolutely something he would do the second he got the opportunity.

1
livingstondh•

Yup. And Eithan definitely has weapons or the materials for Lindon to build weapons he could use to kill a Class 2 fiend. But I’d wager the Weeping Dragon’s Breath could do it on its own. It is the most powerful offensive force on the planet, and literally had the range to land on the moon. Which is insane. We don’t see any stronger worlds than Cradle

1
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1
apolobgod•

Just want to point out that hardly two different serirs will be translatable 1 to 1 in terms of power, even if theyre meant to share a universe somehow.

Also, remember when a bunch of jades killed a sage? Dont get all worked out for discrepancies yet, theres a shit ton of books to come yet

1
TypicalMapsOP•

A fair point. There could be mechanisms at play that Will simply didn't get to, as even he mentioned in the mega thread it isnt as simple a situation as a 1v1.

I mainly made this post so I wouldn't have the think about it anymore and to see if there was an obvious explanation I was missing. The comments have highlighted several factors I didn't really consider when first typing this out so it helped in that regard.

2
DirtyLittleCkrit•

The last book should have been two or more books.

Also as soon as Time manipulation was brought in the story jumped the shark.

All they needed to do was put the training word inside a time bubble on cradle and boom. Infinite extra time.

-5