Source
r/victoria3•
Sinius

Ammunition is expensive, but munitions factories aren't productive. What to do?

Advice Wanted

I'm a newbie and one of the issues I've been having since I started my Sweden learning game is reducing the price of ammunition to cut down on my military goods spending.

I have a munitions factory that is only productive during war time, and not by much. I don't know what to do about it, every input good is at or below market price, but the factory is simply not productive enough to compete with other industries in hiring people. When I try to level it or build a new one, productivity is always in the red, everywhere. During peace time it just closes. The production methods are at the maximum I can set them to.

How do I solve this? Should I subsidize it? Is there a way for me to figure out how many military goods my armies will be using to know how many factories to build? Create an export route to make demand? The first and last options seem a bit counter-intuitive, since subsidizing will just cost me money and exporting will increase the prices further, at least during war time.

Posted Nov 26, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

124
traviscalladine•

Inputs might be pricy. You could try lowering the cost of goods but it might just be something you'll want to subsidize for stability then get some export routes going to stabilize demand.

56
SiniusOP•

They're at or below market price, though. Does that still make them too price-y?

15
traviscalladine•

Labour is an input, too. Not sure what's going on with your game. PMs can affect profitability in a number of ways. Bottom line is that if you can't massage it to be profitable, you still need it to be reliable. So try the tweaks you can but even if wages are too high or something at least the money is getting spent to improve quality of life somewhere and you'll want those bullets handy when you need them.

21
Big_Parsley2476•

And, are you building the factory in a place where they have some of the input goods already being produced? Local prices can be crazy good

5
SiniusOP•

It's in the same state as I have my lead mines

1
Polisskolan3•

First of all, you shouldn't always say production methods to the highest.

You have a number of options, but the key point is that a factory that's producing something that people aren't using isn't going to be productive for obvious reasons. People don't need bullets in peacetime and the factory won't have consumers to buy their products.

One option is to stop trying to produce ammunition and just import it when you go to war. Another option is to export ammunition to countries that do have demand for it. A third option is to subsidize it. This will naturally be costly as you're throwing money at an unprofitable factory.

28
Franklin_le_Tanklin•

I like to go big on ammo and export it. Especially to countries which I plan to invade.

So when it’s time for war I do an ammo embargo, they all of a sudden can’t get ammo, and I end up with a glut of it in my market making war cheaper

30
SiniusOP•

That's super smart! I have to start doing that

6
Franklin_le_Tanklin•

It works well with arms too. If you want to war monger, you need to be a major weapons exporter

11
Firebat12•

Note to self: Become an arms dealer

3
SiniusOP•

Is there a way for me to figure out how much ammunition my army's going to use while fighting, at least?

3
max_schenk_•

I think it's x1.6 from your peacetime amount plus whatever amount you need for conscripts

4
SiniusOP•

Great, thanks!

1
Custodian_Nelfe•

Unfortunately as peacetime barracks consume not so much weapons and ammo, those factories are in the top 3 of the most unprofitable of the game. You can try to export but in my games it's almost useless.

10
NicWester•

Eh, it's alright. Not every building needs to be fully employed all the time. The permanent employees exist to keep your Skirmish Infantry and Shrapnel Artillery supplied during peace time. The building will hire to the extent that it meets your army's need, then stop. During wartime, when Mobilization boosts the need, prices will go up and the building will hire more people to optimize their profits, then let them go off to other jobs after the war.

Think of it as homefront conscription. You drag farmers and peasants out of the fields to fill your conscript regiments, the market drags workers out of paper factories to make ammunition and small arms.

8
Lapkonium•

Running Sweden too now. I subsidise my government goods all the time. The money I spend on subsidies cones back in lower market price on goods I buy.

4
chihuahuazero•

Another option long term is to increase your peacetime demand by increasing your standing army and ensuring ammo is being bought at a higher baseline. There is some worth in having a standing army even outside war, such as the prestige from army power projection and the economic benefits of employing pops.

But of course expanding the military is expensive and not worth it for most countries. But overall, countries with larger militaries will have a better time making ammo factories profitable because they have the scale to stimulate demand.

2
sabremanayy•

I don't worry about the munition factory being profitable, since that's not the point of it. It will never be profitable enough to make a difference or affect your economy in any meaningful, it only exists to avoid ammunition shortage during war, and make sure the cost of mobilization doesn't go too high. During peacetime if it's not hiring enough people that's not a problem, that's a feature, as long as it's able to meet demand during war time (you can estimate this by checking the need in the market place, and multiplying it by 2x (I don't know the exact number but it's not more than this, and with technologies it goes even lower) and then checking if at full capacity your munitions factory can match that or atleast be close to matching that).

2
Mightyballmann•

Join a customs union. Swedens market isnt big enough to keep military goods productions profitable.

2
Wonderful_Pianist_40•

Exports during international wars and subsidies.

1
mrfoseptik•

i experience this in my game too. there is two problem with war industries.

  1. Their products' base price are very cheap. you need to keep their input prices always low. (completely opposite of oil)
  2. there isn't any demand. you can arm 100.000 people with two factories

a small number fixes should make than viable.

1
huangw15•

Things like cannons and ammunition really become profitable late game when you get a big enough army.

1
BaronOfTheVoid•

Perhaps MAPI is a factor here. Are the barracks and the munitions factory in the same state?

1
Davies301•

Not sure if this is correct train of thought but, what I do is subsidize my arms industry (Guns, Arty, Munitions) so they don't lose employment when I actually need them and export during peacetime. It's also the one sector I try to min max where my army is taking just under or the exact amount of goods produced.

1
Erfar•

Maybe your factories have too high level? Factories recruits by chunks of 20%, so if after hiring 20% of workforce would become unprofitable (for example you would produce too much ammo) - factory would not hire anyone.

Solution - never play LF and have ability to downgrade/subsidize important industries

1