Source
r/weightroom•
AgentJohnson

Going from 400 to 500 deadlift, how did you do it, and how does my plan look?

I've finally cracked 400 as a 1RM, 415 as of today. I have the ambitious goal of making 495 in the first week of June. I'm weakest out of the bottom, as I suspect most people are. I deadlift on Saturdays. My deadlift workout day -

Warm up on bike, 5 mins

Foam roll legs, back, tennis ball arms, chest, the whole gamut.

Deadlift, going up to 5RM (375 today). Then 1RM. Descend plate by plate for 5 reps each. I use chalk always and mixed grip on the top 3 sets.

Assists - Platform D/L, Weighted Back extensions, pause squats, all 3x5. Go home and foam roll while cooking.

I feel it's an ambitious goal, but screw it - that's what the iron is all about. I would appreciate your input about my program and what you would do with this goal. Thanks!

Edit: I've also recently started squatting facing out of the power rack, i.e. not at a mirror. Gon' keep doing that for SURE.

Posted Feb 17, 2013, 1:37 AM UTC · edited

3495
admiraltrump•

Upvote for squatting without mirrors.

26
AgentJohnsonOP•

Seriously. It's the way to go!!

Edit: Thanks!

6
jacobonthewebGeneral - Inter.•

Can you explain what this means? I switched from squatting in front of a mirror to not a couple years back because my gym moved the rack. Did I miss a gain?

4
AgentJohnsonOP•

People tend to look at themselves in the mirror (not necessarily out of vanity) and it's almost guaranteed to mess up your form. The general recommendation seems to be to avoid mirrors with most lifts.

6
troublesome•

it doesn't hurt form (unless you're twisting or turning to see yourself). what happens is that you get dependent on visual feedback. there was a study where they found that people who fixed problems with visual feedback reverted to their form problems when the visual feedback device was removed.

21
avdale•

It can do. If you're looking at yourself in a mirror as you drop into the hole you will drop your eye and head position to keep looking at yourself which will cause your chest to drop.

1
A-RonStrength Training - Inter.•

Also if you're planning to compete. You should get used to squatting without mirrors.

7
s_mccStrength Training - Inter.•

Get as many people as you can to sit in a semi-circle and stare at you with mixed worried/bored/excited expressions. Get one to sit front and center and nod at you.

5
cbain8509•

I have to watch my vinegar strokes (make eye contact) for most of my lifts but Im not watching the rest of my body. I find it helps my form. Then again I could be the exception not the rule.

4
FortiNihilDifficile•

Vinegar strokes? You're masturbating in the gym?

2
jacobonthewebGeneral - Inter.•

Interesting. That makes sense. Thanks.

1
shauncorleoneStrength Training - Inter.•

Agreed. I have one rack in my gym without a mirror, and I pray every morning of squat day it's not occupied. Squats are hard enough without distractions.

2
pligga•

Facing out of the power rack isn't the greatest idea. Backing into a squat rack after doing near a near max set is asking for problems. If I can get a squat rack without a mirror, it's always my no1 choice but I wouldn't back out of a squat rack simply to not be distracted by the mirror.

2
JEveryman•

Don't power racks have notches on the front and back of the cage for the safeties? At my gym you can set the racks for the bar on the opposite side and still walk the weight out and in safely.

2
AgentJohnsonOP•

This is correct in my case.

1
pligga•

Yes they do. Still seems subpar in terms of safety. Not once have I seen any "high level" squatter back into a rack. To each their own I guess.

1
CaptainSarcasmoCharter Member - Failing 470lb Deadlifts - Elite•

They're talking about using the rack as normal, but in the opposite direction.

If you put the hooks on the near inside and face away from the wall, you still walk out backwards and walk in forwards.

3
gzcl•

I squatted a lot more. A lot more.

24
failon•

I took longer going from 400 to 500 than I did 500 to 600. The key to the latter was high volume and selecting deadlift variations that systematically strengthen weak points. And lots of squats and leg press.

21
ktothekStrength Training - Inter.•

about how often would you say you pulled from the floor during your 500 to 600 period?

4
failon•

I'd pull heavy singles, doubles, or triples every other week or so. Most of my volume was rack pulls, deficit reads, or RDL's, for about a month each then a period of pulling from the floor after a minor deload to peak.

2
ktothekStrength Training - Inter.•

I've been doing the same recently after switching from sumo to conventional. Coach told me to pull heavy from the floor only once every 5 weeks or so. His reasoning is that heavy pulls from the floor are taxing on the CNS, and that strength comes with working the movement in other ways. Anyways, don't know the science behind it but in 6 weeks I pulled conv my last sumo max so something most have worked.

1
nickjhat•

upvote for not pointing out something about squatting when seeking advice for deadlifts...

-13
troublesome•

i went from 400 too 500 in around 6-7 months. what i did was follow a program (this one to be precise, though i wouldn't recommend it any more). i'd suggest following a program that focuses on the deadlift instead of something you made up.

11
MrTomnus•

What program would you recommend?

3
troublesome•

well, the reason i wouldn't recommend the Cressey one is that i don't think that box squats should be taken to an almost 1rm. the risk of losing control and falling on the box is too great. it happened to me, that's how i know. lost control with 405 on my back...ended up with a coccyx contusion, set me back a good year on training and it still flares up every now and then.

that being said, i would recommend that very program but with low bar squats or something posterior chain heavy that lets you safely go to a very heavy single/1rm. the Cressey program is loosely based around Westside principles where you have the ME/speed movement one day and DE/RE method the other day. so i would recommend westside variations for training for PR's. i also don't like training to actual 1rm's for people who don't actually aspire to be powerlifters because of the risk involved, but that's another story.

13
failon•

Tim Henriques has a great 12 week program on T-Nation.

2
MrTomnus•

Link?

1
eric_twingeCharter Member•

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/twelve_weeks_to_a_better_deadlift

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
AgentJohnsonOP•

Thank you for this, I will read through it.

2
AgentJohnsonOP•

That was a rather interesting read. Thanks!

1
lonejeeper•

Huh, I only ever foam roll as recovery, never as preworkout/warmup. I don't usually even stretch much on 1rm days. I wonder if foam rolling is helping your performance or hindering it.

Also looks like a lot of volume for deads. I wouldn't do the accessory work before deads, either... I want them nice and strong. I do accessory work on days I don't deadlift.

Hard to gauge the possibility, but thats far enough out that it seems doable. Raw/belted/straps ? Food/supps ? Bodyweight? What do you squat?

7
troublesome•

it doesn't hinder performance.

11
lonejeeper•

Ill be giving this a shot next dead day.

5
AgentJohnsonOP•

I've read both opinions. I feel more loosened up when I use it a bit. A quick google search reveals this on Elite FTS. http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/training-with-foam-rollers/

But they do say a full routine should be used sparingly

I also do things like leg swings to get my hips warmed up. Either way, the goal is to stay limber - I have a coworker who is a powerlifter and rather clearly has limited mobility. Don't wanna be that guy.

5
lonejeeper•

Well, I'll be damned. I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the info.

3
three_white_lights•

Foam rolling is great for loosening up before any session. Just use light passes and only a few on each area. I foam roll before all my training sessions and occasionally before taking a shit.

1
indefatigablepanache•

This helped me

http://www.wannabebig.com/training/deadlift-5-plates-like-a-champion/

6
gnuckolsthe beardsmith•

If you have the mobility, stiff leg deficit pulls are fantastic. They help teach you to pull when your hips are far away from the bar and to overcome the bad leverages associated with the start of a pull.

I'd also recommend a a second (or third) deadlift day, sticking with just 65-75% of your max for fast singles, just to further ingrain the motor pattern.

6
BaronVonMannsechs•

Isn't 65-75% pretty high for speed work?

2
gnuckolsthe beardsmith•

It's not speed work. It's just pulling a weight that's heavy enough to count, but light enough to not screw with recovery, and pulling it as fast as possible.

6
BaronVonMannsechs•

I see.

1
gnuckolsthe beardsmith•

wow, I just re-read what I wrote. It came out a lot harsher than I meant it to. Sorry about that.

6
TheAesirPowerlifting - Advanced•

60-70% is what I generally use for speed work, and I generally throw bands in on top of that.

1
three_white_lights•

For a raw lifter Westside often use much higher % than for geared lifters. Often up to 80% for novice lifters. The key is not to be guided by a percentage but by bar speed. If you apply max force it should move fast. For deadlifts I'd only use singles but with less than 30sec rest b/w sets.

1
cbucks•

What do you mean weakest out of the bottom?

5
NachoSalazar•

Off the floor.

11
AgentJohnsonOP•

I mean to say that getting the bar past my knees is the hardest part. If I were doing a rack pull (starting above knees and going to lockout) I suspect I could do considerably more. Perhaps not, but I am not particularly interested in rack pulls unless I HAVE to. (my gym only has one squat rack, and I already hog it for squatz!!)

5
dbag127Strength Training - Inter.•

Seconding gzcl... I deadlifted maybe 8 or 9 times between my pull going from 405 to 495. (about 7 months I believe) And squatted 3-4 times a week for most of the time. I think going from 500-600 will require much more pulling though, as my upper back seems to be more of a weak point than my hips now.

If you're squat is significantly lower than your pull, I would focus on squatting to push your pull up. But that's just like my opinion, man.

5
just_keeps_walking•

How did you train your upper back muscles in the meantime, since you weren't deadlifting?

2
dbag127Strength Training - Inter.•

shrugs, pulldowns, and squats. In retrospect, I probably could've increased my deadlift more if I had done more upper back work. I didn't really focus on it much.

2
three_white_lights•

Heavy Pendlay Rows.

1
HoustonTexan•

I squatted more and actually hardly deadlifted.

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

3
SMORKIN_LABBIT•

Lots of food. Focus on bringing up your squat and I cannot recommend more strongly doing snatch grip deadlifts for volume 235x5x10 and go up 5lbs per week. Doing those alone for like a month and a half will raise your deadlift 25lbs

3
davidf81•

I went from 400 to 500 in 4 months deadlifting twice a week doing all my sets touch and go. Heavy rack pulls from just below the knee along with heavy shrugs liberally sprinkled in. Day 1 was 5x10 at 65% 1RM, day 2 was 95% single, 90% AMRAP, 85% AMRAP, 80% AMRAP, with 10 minutes rest between each one. I pulled the template out of my ass for something to do while letting a badly torn triceps recoup, so during this time I was doing 0 pressing.

3
MrTomnus•

day 2 was 95% single, 90% AMRAP, 85% AMRAP, 80% AMRAP, with 10 minutes rest between each one.

Damn nigga

4
Gammaraymuscles84•

Like most of the responses I actually dead lifted less and squated more. if you have one whole day dedicated for dead lift though I would suggest doing deads with around 60% for 6 set of 1 explosively then doing barbell rows and more lat and upper back exercises. You can also do straight leg deads for 3 sets after your speed pulls and good mornings on squat day.

3
MancinoStrength Training - Inter.•

If you're weak off the floor, deficit Deadlifts should help.

3
Strikerrjones•

I didn't know much about training when I went from 400 to 500, but I would just do three sets of deadlifts at the end of back day (LOLBODYPARTSPLIT) of 6, 4, and 2 reps with a single weight. When I could hit 6 reps or more for the first set, I upped the weight 5-10 pounds. After awhile, I decided to try maxing and hit 495 pretty easily (I believe I could do 445 x 6 at that point).

3
koolaidman123•

Can someone explain the benefit of doing more squats and less actual pulls?

3
addmoreice•

As I understand it:

The deadlift is a hammer on your CNS. If your form is dialed in than squatting can give you much of the same benefits with less of the CNS fatigue.

3
three_white_lights•

Generally it's 7-10 days to recover from a true ME squat but closer to 14-16 days for a ME deadlift.

1
addmoreice•

good to know. I would have guessed lower for both, but I am probably not doing max effort then.

1
n3hemiah•

I just used 5/3/1. That got me to 485. After that, I just did SS for 8 weeks and that sort of pushed me into 500.

2
bippodotta•

Fuck it, I'm going novice linear progression again?

1
n3hemiah•

That was my thought process after seeing a 155lb man at my gym squatting 300x5x5. He made an r/fitness post a month ago or so.

2
Lime_Seltzer•

do singles and start doing GHRs

1
UglyDog•

I squatted, shrugged, and overhead pressed alot. By alot, I mean 1 hour of shrugging, a shrugathon.

1