I've seen what I've seen, and I try to be pragmatic, but I'm not a sommelier of the NFL rulebook. So I come asking for semi-neutral, only-mildly-biased takes.
Posted Dec 27, 2023, 5:37 AM UTC
Every elite pass rusher gets held and gets more no calls, it's not a bug it's a feature.
Is there any solution? Offenses would all fall off a cliff if they started calling O line holding based on the letter of the law, but this compromise of only calling it if the ref seems it too egregious makes it seem like the refs can basically decide who wins based on how much they let O lines get away with.
As a guy who loves defense far more than offense (the forward pass is an affront to God) I would love to see it called more and watch QBs get decimated.
Are you a bears fan hiding in disguise?
imagine a wrld...
-no dumb DPI calls, cornerbacks should b allowed to b just as physical as WRs
-no dumb roughing the passer calls, should be reserved for blatant roughing
-no dumb late hit calls, if a QB doesn't slide he should get lit tf up, if a player isn't blatantly trying to go out of bounds he should get lit tf up. if a QB throws a hospital pass to his reciever across the middle WR should get lit tf up and then yell at his QB for trying to kill him instead of fans/refs blaming linebackers/safeties for making plays on the ball in the middle of the field
-no more no calls on false starts, offensive tackles shouldnt get head starts on edge rushers
-actually call holding, hands to the face, etc when offensive lineman do it like every play
rules need to stop changing to allow for more offensive production. let offenses adapt naturally. rules like these would change offenses in a good way and force them to actually be creative and create yardage/scoring opportunities in more legitimate ways while also making defense way more exciting and relevant
The problem is that a lot of the rules that make physical defence more difficult are also safety related.
What you're seeing is the league's solution. They don't want defenses dominating and cause 3-6 primetime games to be the norm.
They also like the ability to be able to go to officials pregame and say "ok boys let's make sure we watch the holding today on ______ player or the ______ defense." And they can pretty much determine game outcomes by doing such. Yet it just looks like officials doing their job to the untrained eye. But I think anyone would be naïve to think the NFL doesn't have subjective rules in place like this to be able to influence games when they want to.
They also would rather offenses decide games than defenses. The NFL looks at Parsons, Garrett, Watt, Chubb etc and thinks do we want these guys deciding games or do we want Mahomes, Hurts, Prescott, Allen etc deciding games? And their answer has always been the QBs.
They tried to help you guys VS miami on Dallas last score. As a miami fan I know the nfl has it out for us. I saw hill be held about 3 times that game. Plus that b.s. roughing the passer call.
Look at how many receivers get held and nothing is done.
This is correct, but I think it diminishes the product when it becomes this blatant.
Every pass rusher gets boned on holding. But not every player is leading the league in double teams (and beating them) with pictures of 2 different guys just flat out bear hugging him. Some of these hold are what I would classify "fucking egregious". There is at least one every couple games.
but I think it diminishes the product when it becomes this blatant.
I agree. It's also diminishes the product when they suddenly start calling it a lot because you know something came down from the NFL to the officials to say influence the game in a certain way.
I feel like this might happen to Micah. Hopefully in the playoffs.
Every great pass rusher gets held, Parsons just complains about it the most
I mean, when you have the highest pass rush win rate in the league and haven’t drawn a singular holding call in 38 quarters, i understand the frustration
Every teams best pass rusher gets held. Phillips got held all game against the Eagles and Eagles got 0 penalties called on them. Micah just cries more.
Because he has the most pressures, so it's more frustrating that he is the best at getting to the QB but has very few sacks because he arrives 0.3 sec late every time because he is being held
Yes. Yes.
Also yes for every other best pass rusher in the league.
Holding is subjective in practice.
By the letter of the law? Yeah, probably
Star pass rushers get held all the time and have been getting held all of the time for basically the entire history of the league. None of the elite ones are immune. Both Watts, both Bosas, Garrett, Donald, Von, Crosby, fill in the blank, they were all held constantly. It really is a non story.
This. I was complaining about how blatant Crosby was getting held yesterday, and my friend just said watch Chris Jones next possession and you probably won’t complain as much.
All the premier DL get held nearly every play
Your right, but how many have gone 3 8 quarters?
Yes he is. So is every teams best rusher. Even the Jermaine Johnson on the Jets gets held every other play. It’s frustrating because it negates the benefits of getting elite pass rushers. Also, some teams OLs get away with it more than others, mostly the Chiefs and Eagles (which is why those teams get so much flak), but to answer your question yes he does, and yes they do.
Can I see the actual data of no calls to calls on the Eagles compared to everyone else?
Landon Dickerson was the most penalized player in the league last year, and Jawaan Taylor is the most penalized player this year. There obviously isn’t any data for missed calls. However, we all watched both teams a lot in primetime and in the playoffs the last couple years, there’s a reason that those players and OLs get a ton of attention for their play lol
So most penalized players are the ones getting away with calls? I’m not saying calls are missed but the perceptions are absolutely skewed because of how often you watch a team on prime time. I absolutely guarantee if you were to watch every game every week it would be closer to even across the league.
Oh look, it's only the 15th post about this the last two days
Elite Edge Rushers get held for no calls.
There was a play TJ was literally held from behind by 2 people got a sack... no call.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LXDbBMWQkA
This isnt meant to be about TJ - just the edge I obviously see the most.
Micah gets held a lot to no call, and its all bullshit.
There is a provision to the rules that not many fans know about that can make holding legal in some instances that fans throw their hands up and go wheres the hold.
Specifically if the edge rushes to the outside and looks like they are in a chokehold... probably legal. OL are specifically allowed by the rules to hold players during a rip move to the outside.
Edit: found a post granted from 8 years ago that talks about the holding exemption
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/3v1eie/oc_explanation_of_how_the_rip_technique_negates/
Believe it or not, every single player that has played him the last 36 quarters of football have been in perfect position against him
Yes and yes.
Yes and ish? No more so than every other high level pass rusher I'd wager.
But, like, not all pass rushes all the same. Fucking Dwight Freeney and his inside spin is going to draw more holds than someone like Alex Highsmith who's go to is the ghost rush.
Let's say Bradley Chubb of the phins got held the same way (which he admittedly didn't because Cowboys decided it would be a better idea to not block him at all), would anyone be upset about refs not calling holding?
This has been a thing for forever at this point. The only reason it's a 'problem' now is because a media darling isn't benefitting from it against a media doghouse. When elite passrushers on other teams in the past got held, it was "Well you can't call holding all the time that would suck" ... but now that a cowboys player gets held it's a tragedy? Come on.
JP(before injury) and chubb get held all the fucking time. But we just bitch about it to ourselves in our own sub in the GDT lol, because it literally happens to everyone. The Ego on parsons is wild.
Oh I've seen chubb crying like a little baby after he's been held.
all players do during the game, most players dont take to social media to cry lol.
Honest questions: is Jalen Carter being held? And are the officials ignoring it?
Top edge rushers are held the most. Not only Parsons, it happens to Watt, Crosby and others. It looks like refs are protecting the QBs to not be killed
Is this yet another crying ass cowfucks fan post? You lost, move the fuck on already.
There’s two answers to this question.
The penalty should be renamed excessive holding. There’s holding on every play, most of the time it just isn’t clear at all.
99.9% of fans don’t actually know what holding is and will cry about that instead of being critical of their own team.
2 calls all yeah …
But it's a common problem star pass rushers face. Micah doesn't help himself by being so vocal about complaining about it, I'm sure.
That said, he'd probably be better served if he'd 'flop' more dramatically when it happens, on occasion. He very rarely quits and throws his hands up in the air like many players who get held do.
Doesn't matter because no one else gets held as much as [insert best pass rusher on your team]
I feel like our pass rushers get held the least, makes sense we are leading in sacks
Defenses have evolved much faster than olineman, there is not much that can be done by refs otherwise they would be calling a hold every play.
Honestly D lines just have such an advantage as a unit, you dont get OL subs and rotations yet you get a geeked up AD or the fucking hulk Myles Garrett who gets periodic breaks, oh and the elite teams with deep rotation like the 49ers keep sending fresh waves at you. Feel bad for those guys sometimes lolp
Doesn’t matter because no one else gets held as much as Chas… wait no not on our team anymore.
Doesn’t matter because no one else gets held as much as Mont… wait no not with us either.
Doesn’t matter because no one else gets held as much as Casey Toohill! The