Nothing should be unethical from the perspective of antinatalism

I am really curious about what you guys think about this one.

The subreddit description reads:

Antinatalism is a group of philosophical ideas that view the intentional creation of new sentient beings as unethical, harmful, or otherwise unjustifiable."

I want to leave "harmful" and "unjustifiable" out of it for now and focus on "unethical". Because I believe that antinatalist philosophy itself debunks this one.

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To start, here is my view of antinatalism in a nutshell and what I think it gets right. Feel free to comment if you agree or disagree with it.

1. People are having kids for selfish reasons like:

• "I want to have a family to make MYSELF happy"
• "I want someone to take care of ME when I AM old"
• "WE need to keep the economy going".

None of this is about a child you are about to bring into that world. You are just using them as a means to an end, like a tool basically.

2. Even if you have good intentions, you cannot guarantee that a person you are bringing into this world will enjoy life.

They might have a blast. They might suffer, be depressed, and kill themselves. We don't know that and we cannot guarantee the positive outcome even if we try our best.

3. You cannot give consent to being born.

You are basically bringing somebody into this world, signing them up for this whole life experience, and there is no way for them to agree or disagree to it. You are forcing this experience onto them.

Which, considering how you don't even know if they will enjoy it, kind of sucks.

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I think that all of those are valid points. The issue I have is where you take those points and go: "therefore, having kids is unethical".

I was brought into this world without my consent. I didn't sign any contracts before or after birth (at least not according to my current knowledge so lets assume that), promising to be a good person.

So I have no moral obligation to be a good person!

Why should I?

I can be whoever I want. I can do whatever I want. I can be Hitler. I can have a thousand babies...

Ethics shouldn't exist as a concept under antinatalism because for a behaviour to be ethical or unethical there has to exist a duty to behave in an ethical way. If you have no duty to behave in an ethical way, then nothing you could do is unethical.

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You don't really need ethics or morality therefore nothing is lost if they are dropped

Something being "unethical" has never stopped a bad person from doing it.

Ethics and morality are also often used to justify hurting others and doing evil because they are super easy to twist and super easy to use to defend your interests.

"Being Gay is immoral, lets beat, imprison, and murder gay people!".

Similarly, a good person doesn't need to be moralized to or be told that something is unethical to not do a thing that they believe is harmful.

I don't need ethics to tell me that kicking dogs is bad. I can just recognize that kicking a dog will make it suffer and will naturally not want to do it.