Do We Have This All Wrong?

My wife and I recently decided to start going to Scarlet Ranch. Some things have occurred while we're there that have given us considerable reason to pause and ask what the rules are and if they even matter. It's given us reason to ask what kind of behavior is okay in these settings and what isn't. Does no really mean no? And when does "no" apply? We're hoping for some guidance; if you have the time to read and respond we would be most grateful as we continue our journey.

A little bit of background: My wife and I have been together for almost 7 years now. We decided to start going to The Ranch because we love to voyeur, we both enjoy exhibitionist acts, and we want to expand our social circle with like minded folks. We also go because my wife is interested in experiencing more opportunities with women. We are a soft swap couple, with no interest in bringing other men into our dynamic. We created a document that details our rules and boundaries; we edit it as needed and review the document prior to every time that we go. We also spend time processing our experiences after we've gone, and engage in conversation when we're ready. Honestly, the entire experience of going to The Ranch has been amazing for how we communicate within our relationship.

WE LOVE going to The Ranch. We've started to recognize who some of the regulars are. We've really enjoyed interactions with some of the staff. We feel like we're starting to make friends, but the process is also slow on account of our general shyness and other communication quirks (we're human). Nothing has happened that has us saying, "We're done." We're definitely starting to re-evaluate what our time there looks like, because what recently occurred makes both of us pretty uncomfortable.

Part 1 - Rules of Engagement?
We love the main room with the couches and beds in the middle. It's a great time being in there with so much going on. We went on a Saturday Night and it was very overwhelming,. Between just how many people there were and how much was going on, it was hard to process it all. Maybe not the best night for us...

We sat together on the edge of the Sybian Table, my back against the wall, my wife sitting in front of me leaning into me. At the front of the table was a single woman. Then to our right, a couple just started fucking. They moved the sybian out of the way and the wife laid down perpendicular to us across the table. He, standing on the floor, started fucking her in the missionary position. The dude invited the single lady to play with his wife while he fucked her, which she kindly obliged if only briefly. Once she stopped, she left.

Then he looked at my wife and I and invited us to play with his wife as well. My wife and the lady both started kissing each other, and both added some light boob and nipple play to each other as well, all while he continued to fuck her slowly. Every now and then I reached in and squeezed his wife's boob and played with her nipple. It was hot and fun, and the first time we've interacted in this way with others while at The Ranch, and really since we've been together.

I started to notice the guy slowly starting to lean in, like he was going to kiss his wife, but he wasn’t low enough to kiss his wife. It didn’t take me long to realize the likely outcome, doesn't take rocket science, but I also didn’t want to assume. He slowly continued to lean in, and then out of nowhere, the dude lifts his head, lunged at my wife and bit her tit.

This is where we need help: From our perspective, we were both verbally invited to touch and play with his wife. We did not, in any way, invite the guy to touch and or play with either of us.

When it comes to consent, are we wrong in this thinking? Should we be of the understanding that if a guy invites us to touch his wife, that we are now obligated to allow him to touch mine? This is important to understand because if consent is implied without additional communication occurring, it will alter how we interact with others moving forward.

His lunging forward and biting my wife in the tit shook the both of us. We left the room to go sit elsewhere and reset our brains. It wasn’t okay. It shocked us. We’re trying to figure out if we are wrong in accepting the invitation to engage someone’s wife without understanding that this gives him inherent consent to do the same. Or are we right in understanding that what this dude did was wrong and unacceptable?

Part 2 - Single Men
Does No Really Mean No? How do we communicate that?

On both of the last two nights that we’ve gone, we have had what we feel were negative interactions with one of the single men who is there. This one creeps us out the most, and we’re looking for guidance on what we should do the next time…

The first of the two nights, my wife and I engaged in an intimate scene on one of the couches near the bed attendants. The gentleman in question, at first, watched us from across the room while sitting on another couch. As we moved from oral to penetrative sex, I noticed him shoot up from where he was sitting (like, "Oh, it's on!") and move in closer to watch us. He went from being 30 feet away to being 8 feet away.

Literal seconds after we were done fucking, he walks up to us and engages with my wife by saying, “I love how you trim your pussy hair, the landing strip, because that’s how I trim mine.” Then sat down on the couch next to us with his drink in his hand as if we were about to have an in-depth convo with him. He then complimented us as a couple (which was kind), we thanked him, and we walked away.

After resetting, we moved to another couch to have another scene, this time out in the area by the bathrooms. We laid on the couch in a way where I could shield my wife from view, because the dude had followed us and continued to stare.

The second night of the two, while we were upstairs at the bar I immediately noticed that he was once again there. This time I decided to observe him a bit more so I could figure out what is up with this dude. He didn’t arrive or leave with another woman. He never interacts with another woman in a way that would indicate that they’re together while he’s there, so I assume that he’s a single male member. From the outset, he seems really nice, but his game is horrible. His pick-up lines and conversation starters are cringey at best.

This guy clearly has an affinity for my wife. When we went downstairs, as soon as he saw her, his body language changed (like a “perk up”) and he started following us around like a puppy dog. We were downstairs for 3 and a half hours; in all of our time down there, he was within eyeshot of us for 3 of those hours. When he was watching us, he was always within at most 10 feet of us. He stares, only moving to sip his drink. We get uncomfortable because of his presence, so we move. Once we settle in to a new spot, as soon as I start kissing my wife, this guy appears as if he teleported there instantly, and it repeats.

At one-point last night we were on a loveseat in a darker corner. My wife laying across the seat and my standing in front of her. We started playing and, again, like he teleported he was right there, watching us from now 5’ away. He never looks at me (which is fine, I get it), only ever staring at my wife as if in a trance. Except, this time there was another guy watching us with him. The other gent came up right behind me as if he was getting ready to take a turn with my wife, like he was standing in line right behind me. He bent over (sideways) only to get his face down closer to look directly at my wife’s pussy while she played with herself.. his face was 2 feet away from her. I started to feel cornered, like something was about to go down, so I told my wife we had to move, and we did.

We covered up and moved… made it to an area in the downstairs where it’s easy to walk by us without noticing we're there (between the crosses). I then observed the same guy (the first guy I was describing) following a pair of ladies around. Two blonde women wearing black dresses. He followed them like a puppy dog too, on more than one occasion reaching his hand out to touch their arms while in conversation. They were clearly uncomfortable and annoyed. They'd move, he's follow. At one point, I watched as they stood up from where they were sitting and tried to shake him off. Once they did, they came back to the same seat and sat down again. The guy returned, tried engaging with them, again reaching out to touch their arm while talking, and I heard one of them reply “It’s our first time here, we’re just trying to absorb it all,” as soon as he walked away, the ladies turned and looked at each other, gave “the look,” stood up and ran upstairs, leaving the club. I was sad for them, that was their 1st and probably only experience.

After that we moved again. He spotted us again and you guessed it… followed us. We too decided to leave for the night.

On both nights, when downstairs, I noticed this guy interacted with a few of the other single men who are present. They only talk in passing and for very brief moments. But I also noticed that they appear to be communicating across the room using hand signals and facial cues. After they communicate in this way, they’ll change positions, almost flipping who they’re watching. The guy who came up on us and was right behind me, staring at my wife’s pussy from 2’ away, is one of the guys who I noticed him communicating in this way with. This is why I felt cornered and creeped, as if something was about to go down. Maybe I'm just unreasonably scared, but it certainly speaks to how uncomfortable this dude has made us.

Look… we get it. It’s a lifestyle club. We want to voyeur like this guy does, but we also wonder if there are rules about how to do that in a way that isn’t creepy. We know that we can just play at home. We know that when we play in a public space, others are going to watch (we welcome that). We know that there are beds with curtains if we want more privacy. None of this is lost on us. We’ve observed many other single men who are what we feel is more “normal”… they don’t pull up on us and force themselves into our scene by proximity, they’re polite, they’re more discrete. We’ve had other men watch us play from across the room during times when it’s less busy. We've been approached by single men asking if we want company, and after my wife says "No, but you can watch" they do so from the other side of the room. But this guy, is next level…

When we think of “No means no”… is it okay for us to ask him to give us some space? Is it okay for us to ask him to stop following us? Is it okay for us to ask him to leave us alone? Or because of the environment we’re in, would that be shitty for us to do? Would we be the assholes in that sense? Because we're at this type of club, is it on us to accept that we're going to have people staring and up in our business while there?

We LOVE the Ranch. We enjoy it. We want to continue to enjoy it. We hope to make friends there, and for those friendships to, perhaps, never include play. We are voyeurs ourselves so we understand that aspect, but we also believe in space, manners, and decency. We want to enjoy the Ranch feeling safe and comfortable doing so. The experiences as described above, leave us wondering if we’re just in the wrong place or have ill-placed expectations while there. It's clear to us that there is no vetting of the single men they let in, and no one on staff is truly paying attention. Some nights, it's hard to be downstairs when a lot of the conversation is about work, travel, or general topics unrelated to sexy time (that might be better up at the bar). Do the rules even matter?

Hope to meet more of you!