Potential buff and rework for shotguns

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This is something I've been thinking of for a while, but for the most part, there isn't enough of a reward for using shotguns. Shotguns have fallen off hard because, quite frankly, there's not a point to using them. Part of the reason why the Double Freedom has been so much fun for me to use is because it is the quintessential "point end this way to erase something" weapon. However, a lot of people also complain that certain shotguns (namely the M90A) should be doing AP3, when "realists" (philosophy) say it should be AP2 for the sake of "realism" (slur) and balance.

I propose something of a middle-ground. I don't really have a good name for something like this yet, but for now, I'll refer to it as "bonus penetration."

Basically, bonus penetration refers to a higher level of penetration when you fire at an enemy in close quarters, and I do mean VERY close quarters. For example, the Punisher has AP2 at all ranges. From somewhere between "this hunter is actively deepthroating the end of my barrel" to around 10 meters, it will do AP3 penetration. However, anything beyond that range will revert to it's default AP2 penetration.

This is to reward players who use shotguns in close quarters combat while still keeping the shotgun's most noticeable flaws (range, damage fall-off, and pellet spread) something to be kept under consideration. The intent of this proposed change isn't to nerf the weapon at range, but rather to reward players who use the shotgun where it should be most effective: breath-smelling distance. Stagger and damage values will be kept unchanged, for the most part, through there will undoubtedly be instances of you doing 100% damage instead of the normal 65% since your AV surpasses a target's AP value, but that's the point. You SHOULD be rewarded for using a shotgun in close quarters while not being punished for using it outside of CQC.

Note that I will not be taking durable damage into consideration here, because durable damage is a bitch and most of the time you'll be aiming for the head or center mass anyways because it's a shotgun, so it shouldn't be that noticeable. Still, feel free to correct me if durableness does play a role in interactions.

Of course, this would probably be a pain to code and program, but it would also be complicated because the Punisher isn't the only shotgun in the game. What about weapons like the Breaker, or Double Freedom?

Well, I propose the heretical claim that the DF should have AP4 BP, BUT it also has the narrowest range for that BP. I'm talking 2-3 meters MAX. Of course, it'll keep the AP3 penetration, but at max range (like 40-50 meters out), it'll drop down to AP2.

(Let's be honest though, if you're trying to snipe anything at 50 meters with the DF, what are you doing?)

What about weapons like the M90A?

Well, most people who want this weapon to be AP3 to reflect Halo's lore forger that that M90A is the version used in Halo 3 and ODST, NOT Halo CE. Halo CE's version was the M90 and boasted 12 shells and a MONSTROUS amount of damage. When people ask for an AP3 Halo shotgun, THAT'S the one they're thinking of. The M90A, in comparison, is a bitch. It still kicks ass, don't get me wrong, but Halo 3 and ODST's shotgun is easily the worst rendition in the entire series when it comes to damage, range, and overall fun factor. It does piss-poor damage at anything except point blank, and it doesn't beat out any weapons in that role because the Sword exists, but that's besides the point.

I propose that the M90A should have the largest window for BP, anywhere from 10-20 meters away for AP3 penetration. Past that, it drops to AP2, as per the usual. Of course, I would also like to see a durable damage buff for it as well, but that's neither here nor there.

The Slugger, however, will not benefit from BP, since it already does AP3 and there's no need for it to do anything less than that regardless of range. Now, someone might ask "well then what's the point of the Slugger if the Punisher can AP3 as well."

The difference is that the Punisher can only do AP3 in VERY close quarters. The Slugger, on the other hand, can do AP3 REGARDLESS of distance.

For the auto-shotties, this is where it's a bit more nebulous. Of course, the S&P will also miss out on the BP penetration due it's role of "basically an AR but with shotgun pellets instead" and because it fires birdshot, but it will most likely be indirectly nerfed as a result of BP implementation.

Standard Breaker could benefit from it, albeit with a narrower window of up to maybe 7-8 meters? The Breaker-Incinderary would also probably miss out on the BP since the pellets it fires are noticeabely slower than bullets and it seems most of the damage comes from the fire DOT anyways (which sucks since DOT sucks but that's the host de-sync issue's fault, not the weapon itself).

Anyways, that's about it. Please let me know what you guys think about something like this. This discussion is only meant for discourse surrounding the shotguns, not AH or the community itself. I'm not asking for opinions on AH, just on how you guys feel about a potential change like this.

Posted Dec 29, 2025, 8:02 PM UTC

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