Talking Too Much About The Twins - How Do They Work? Should You Pull?

With the launch of the first Should I Pull Thread, I wanted to throw something of my own out there. I know it’s a bit on the late side, but since it seems like many people still have questions about whether to pull the Twins or not, and there’s been a lot of talk, I figured I’d share my thoughts and impressions. I won’t talk about numbers too much - not only does lufel.net already do that, but u/Najox (here) and u/DiplomacyPunIn10Did (here) made it even simpler, and all three better than I could - but rather, I want to focus a bit more on how they play, since they have different mechanics, and those different mechanics a part of what goes into the question of “should I pull?”

DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this guide are just that - my opinions. Your mileage can, and likely will, vary. This also applies to Global/SEA since I play on Global and have zero experience with CN/TW.

So What Makes The Twins Good?

They can fill whatever role you need them to, and they will do a good job, possibly even a great job. Once you have them built up well, you’ll find them to be solid attackers that can make your whole team, or even just your primary DPS, better. Their rotation is simple and straightforward (S1 or S2, then the other, then S3), and while the Desire mechanic can seem intimidating, it is also relatively simple to get at least good returns from it. Pulling them will also level up Wonder’s skills, which makes him better at what he’s good at.

So What Makes The Twins … Not So Good?

In terms of damage potential, while they hit harder than the support roles, they’re not quite on the same level as the dedicated DPS options. Because their damage is spread out over four elements and Almighty, they’re not the best option for when one type of damage is desired, such as SoS. Some of their roles have a slow rotation (at least at A0) or play a bit differently than normal. They also don’t really start to hit their stride until around level 70, when their passives max out and their Attack starts getting close to the benchmark they need to max Desire, so they can seem underpowered compared to other characters at lower levels.

So Is A0 Really Useless? What Makes A1 So Good?

In short? Hell no it’s not useless.

It’s just that A1 is extremely good. It’s probably the biggest game-changing investment since Chord’s weapon and its Highlight gauge boost. It may not be an essential investment, but I can almost guarantee that if you make it, you’ll be glad that you did. What makes it good is that it shortens their rotation from three turns to two by making their S3 auto-cast for free when it’s available. This not only boosts their damage potential (because you get a free hit every two turns that you didn’t have before), but the shortened rotation will allow you to refresh their effects as they expire or before, so unless they get uninterrupted, their buffs will stay up perpetually.

A0 is still plenty useful and worth considering, but A1 will make the clunky parts better, and the better parts even more so. A way to think of it is that A0 can support existing roles, while A1 can completely fill in for them and even excel at certain jobs.

So How Does Desire Work?

Desire is what almost everything the Twins can do scales off of. It not only boosts the power of their secondary effects, but it boosts the modifiers of all their attacks, which are normally pretty low. While it seems complex, it’s actually straightforward - the Twins get 25 Desire to start, and their first passive, Overseer of Rehabilitation, grants more based on their Attack, Damage Mult, and Crit Mult stats. 4500 Attack, 30% Damage Mult, and 190% Crit Mult will get you to the maximum of 100 after Overseer of Rehabilitation is fully leveled. The Nativity/Power revelation set will boost this by 5% and allow you to get to 105. A6 can get you up to 125, but you probably don’t need this guide if you’re going that far.

Desire is locked in at the beginning of battle based on in-battle stats after factoring in Thieves Den boosts and navigator bonuses, so if you’re short before battle, those can make up the difference. Desire is not affected by buffs or debuffs after battle has started.

So … Should I Pull? What About The Weapon?

Beyond the standard “pull who you like” answer, this is going to depend on two things: the size of your roster, and how much you’re willing or able to invest, both in terms of levels and pulling dupes.

The Twins have more value the smaller your roster is. To varying extents, they can fill in for limited characters you didn’t pull, but if you already have certain roles filled, the Twins are still good but more of a luxury. For instance, if you pulled Cherish, you don’t necessarily need their Guardian set, and their Medic set isn’t as necessary if you have a well-built Marian. They also won’t supplant the upper-tier DPS options like Queen, Messa, or Noir, but they’re absolutely useful if you don’t have access to them.

Their weapon is nice for the Attack boost and the damage buffs, but not necessary. The Desire increase only applies to the S3. The full potential of the weapon is unlocked at A1, because you’ll start with the maximum two stacks, and refresh one every turn.

So if you’re planning to pull the Twins, the best way to go about it is A0, then A1, then the weapon if you feel up to it. A1R0 or just A1 is great for low spenders, especially low spenders who started early and skipped several characters, because they can easily be the missing piece your roster needs, or at least a good glue piece that will patch up any team that might need a jolt of power.

For players who started later on and missed Chord, the Twins even at A0 can give you a lot of the offensive boosting that she would have, though you won’t have the boost to your Highlight.

For players just starting out who still have the ability to pull Joker, it’s kind of a toss-up. The Twins can be more useful, if not more powerful, later on once they get up to speed, but can be confusing to use in the beginning. Joker is simpler and more useful to start out, but you can pick up Panther earlier on who is equally simple and almost as useful. While I’d personally lean toward the Twins, picking Joker or even just holding off is understandable.

So How Do The Roles Play? Which One Is Best?

For the sake of convenience, I’m going to list the additional effects that are in play with each role - what each skill ad Highlight provides as well as the effect of their second passive, Oxymoron - since those more than element damage are what separates the roles and determines what you want them to do.

NOTE: I’m listing skills in the order that the game has them, which starts at Fire/Ice and goes down the list, but it doesn’t matter which skill is in which slot; just the combination.

Medic (Fire/Ice, Elec/Wind)
Fire/Ice: Boosts party’s Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Boosts party’s Attack and Damage (2 turns)
Elec/Wind: Heals party; reduces party’s damage taken (3 turns)
- HL: Heals party; increases party’s max HP (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Heals party; boosts party’s damage dealt (2 turns)
Oxymoron Effect: Boosts Twins’ Healing Effect and party’s damage dealt

While the official role is Medic, you’d be forgiven for mistaking it for a buffer thanks to the attack and damage boosts. This is one of their better roles because of its combination of boosting your damage while reducing the enemy’s, while healing you two out of every three turns, and participating in the offense better than any healer. While you technically can heal on-demand just by spamming Elec/Wind, leaving Fire/Ice and S3 out of the equation is foolish.

A1 turns this role into a contender for best healer in the game, because the shortened rotation means you can set it up so you get healed every turn while also keeping all the buffs active.

Strategist (Fire/Ice, Psy/Nuke)
Fire/Ice: Boosts party’s Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Boosts party’s Attack and Damage (2 turns)
Psy/Nuke: Boosts Pierce Rate for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Single-target damage (can crit); boost Attack for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Boosts party’s Critical Damage and grant Skill Amplification to party excluding Twins (both 2 turns)
Oxymoron Effect: Twins Speed +5, boosts party’s Attack

This is considered the best role for the Twins, and looking at the list of Attack boosts - all of which stack and are pretty sizeable - it’s pretty easy to see why. Skill Amplification is also useful for everyone. What it does is boost skill modifiers on those skills that improve modifiers when leveling up (such as attack skills or Wonder’s buffs/debuffs) or give a flat boost to skills that improve caps when they level up (things like Leon’s S3 or Chord’s S2). The bigger the base, the better the boost.

Another reason this is a great role is that since it’s not as reliant on timing the way healing is, or damage the way DPS is, A1 isn’t really necessary to maximize performance - it’s still great and simplifies things, but at A0 this will probably be your go-to role.

NOTE: Although the in-game text says that the Psy/Nuke boosts go to the Assassin or Sweeper ally with the highest Attack, Wonder is NOT considered to be in this role even if he has an Assassin or Sweeper Persona in the lead. He will only get this buff if he has the highest Attack on your side other than the Twins, so keep that in mind if you're running Wonder as your DPS.

Sweeper (Fire/Ice, Bless/Curse)
Fire/Ice: Boosts party’s Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Boosts party’s Attack and Damage (2 turns)
Bless/Curse: Boosts Twins Attack, Damage, and Crit Rate (3 turns)
- HL: AoE damage (can crit); boosts Twins Attack and Crit Damage (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Attack becomes AoE
Oxymoron Effect: Boosts Twins Crit Rate

This is a wonky role, since S1 and S2 are single-target attacks, meaning your only non-HL AoE attack is S3. Meaning that, at A0, you’re only doing your job once every three turns, which is far from ideal even factoring in that the damage is Almighty and bypasses resistance. While they can’t be a primary DPS as a result, their ability to provide an Attack boost makes them a good supporting DPS.

A1 alleviates this somewhat by giving them a free AoE shot before the first turn and after the second, which can make them useful for clearing out farmable content and wandering Shadows, or possibly being an alternate option for Nightmare Gateway if you don’t have or haven’t built the intended sweeper DPS.

Guardian (Elec/Wind, Psy/Nuke)
Elec/Wind: Heals party; reduces party’s damage taken (3 turns)
- HL: Heals party; increases party’s max HP (2 turns)
Psy/Nuke: Boosts Pierce Rate for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Single-target damage (can crit); boost Attack for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Grants party 1 Down Point; shields party (2 turns); boosts party’s Defense (2 turns)
Oxymoron Effect: Boosts Twins Shield Given

This role is all about keeping the party alive, and it can be very, very good at doing that. It has probably the weakest Oxymoron effect, since it’s only useful for the S3, and it lacks the reliable offensive boosts that Medic provides. It might be a bit slow at A0, needing three turns to set up the shield and Defense boost, though having another source of sustain can alleviate that without losing much since the Twins will be part of the offense.

Similar to Medic, A1 jumps this role to one of the best sustains, possibly even better than Medic in that respect. Also like Medic, A1 allows you to set it up so that you get healed or shielded every turn, which can make you almost “invincible.”

Saboteur (Elec/Wind, Bless/Curse)
Elec/Wind: Heals party; reduces party’s damage taken (3 turns)
- HL: Heals party; increases party’s max HP (2 turns)
Bless/Curse: Boosts Twins Attack, Damage, and Crit Rate (3 turns)
- HL: AoE damage (can crit); boosts Twins Attack and Crit Damage (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Inflict Shock, Windswept, and 2 Curse stacks to main target; Twins gain 2 Blessing stacks; lower all foes’ Defense (all 2 turns)
Oxymoron Effect: Twins Speed +5, increase all foes’ damage taken

Here’s another clunky role, and it is quite possibly the clunkiest. In some ways, it’s a debuffer in name only, since the only debuffs come from Oxymoron and the S3. The Twins will hit harder than any debuffer, but as far as the debuffs themselves go, while they’re not bad, Rin can do similar things. For single-target situations, Vino may even be better with the right setup.

A saving grace of this role is that since one of the debuffs comes from a passive, you don’t specially need A1 as much, though it does make it much better. Even with A1, this is a case of “it’s not bad; it’s just that everything else is better," but it has its uses if you haven't built or otherwise can't use Rin or Vino.

Assassin (Psy/Nuke, Bless/Curse)
Psy/Nuke: Boosts Pierce Rate for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (3 turns)
- HL: Single-target damage (can crit); boost Attack for Twins/ally with the highest Attack (2 turns)
Bless/Curse: Boosts Twins Attack, Damage, and Crit Rate (3 turns)
- HL: AoE damage (can crit); boosts Twins Attack and Crit Damage (2 turns)
S3 Effect: Hits twice; grants Twins Effects stats from the ally with the highest Attack (other than Twins) when using a skill (2 turns)
Oxymoron Effect: Boosts Twins Crit Damage

The last role covered is probably the most straightforward of them, at least from a functional standpoint. Everything (except the Bless/Curse Highlight) does single target damage, and every additional effect is about doing more damage. The only part that holds it back somewhat is the Effects stats boost, which is not really strong enough to make a significant improvement except maybe for Crit Mult.

This role is a little less dependent on A1 for function, since the rotation is all single-target damage, but it absolutely needs A1 to maximize the Almighty hits and keep up with other Assassins.

So What's The Real Best Role For The Twins?

The answer to this, in my honest opinion, is whatever role you feel most comfortable using them in. Strategist is probably the objective best because of its buffs and it's lower reliance on A1, but I've enjoyed using them in Guardian because I don't have to worry about defense. I also haven't pulled a strong single-target DPS, so the Assassin set has also been fun for me.

My personal order (with A1R0) goes, from most useful to least: Strategist -> Guardian -> Medic -> Assassin -> Sweeper -> Saboteur. At A0 Strategist is still on top, but the other roles kinda blend together more. And of course, some roles may have more importance if you don't already have someone solid filling them.

So What Are Your Final Thoughts?

If you've stuck with me all this way, then I appreciate it. I know I put "talking too much" in the title, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was too much for "too much". I just hope this is of some help to you.

Thanks go out to all of those who compiled and posted information about the Twins up to now, and to my companio for putting up with me talking about during the long maintenance for 3.0 where I wrote 95% of this.