Podcasts that feel like a quiet conversation rather than performance?

Been listening to a lot of interview shows lately and I'm getting tired of hosts who sound like they're constantly pitching something. The overly polished energy, the fake laugh, the rehearsed segues. I just want something that feels like two people talking without trying to be entertaining every second.

Think old school radio interview where they just let the conversation breathe. Heavyweight comes close sometimes. So does Tapestry on CBC. Even certain episodes of Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend when he stops doing the bit.

Doesn't have to be serious. Just has to feel human. Could be comedy, philosophy, random life stuff. I just want hosts who actually listen instead of waiting for their turn to talk. What are you listening to when you want to feel like you're in the room instead of being sold something?