r/exmormon•
PA2012

What is a question about Mormonism that you never would have thought to ask when you were a true believer that is an obvious question to ask now that you don't believe.

Here's one of mine. In the bible Jesus said, "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold". And this proves to us how he visited the Americas and established his church there as we read about in the Book of Mormon. I always learned about how he loves ALL his children so of course he visited the Americas.

So my question now is this: didn't he love the people of China, India, Australia, Africa etc? Why didn't he visit any of those people and establish his church there after he was resurrected? Especially given the new essay refuting that dark skin is a curse, we know the reason he isn't visit is because they were cursed for their dark skin.

Edit: Wow this has been great. Lots of good points that I hadn't thought about before. Thanks for the comments

Posted Mar 29, 2014, 1:17 PM UTC · edited

3774
[deleted]•
  1. How can you believe that god is omnipotent and loving when he can't even figure out how to make it possible for more men to choose righteously? (I'm talking about eternal polygamy -- it makes NO sense to me)

  2. You talk, talk, talk, talk, talk about woman's divine role as wife and mother, but when you address single and childless women, it is usually just to tell them that everything will work out in the eternities as long as they are single/childless "through no fault of their own." How can you negate/dismiss their very existence like that and not expect them to leave, or at least to challenge you?

  3. Why the hell does a person need a penis to be a ward clerk, sunday school president, institute coordinator, ces administrator, etc.?

  4. You teach that hunting should be for food only, so why do you ask older missionary couples to run your expensive hunting preserve?

  5. You teach that people should be modest (I'm talking about the REAL definition -- not just the "girls need to dress like nuns" definition), that they shouldn't shop on Sunday, that they shouldn't partake of coffee and tea, that they should be careful with money, etc. -- so why did you open a multi-billion dollar shopping mall that goes against all of that?

  6. Why do you teach that the way a man reacts to a girl's clothing is HER fault? In that vein, how the hell did you come up with your idiotic "modesty" standards? I'm turned on by men's hands, but I don't expect them to veil them all of the time. Is a woman's kneecap or shoulder really that provocative?

  7. KOLOB? Really?

29
Me-Here-NowHeavenly Mother•

This is a amazing and wondrous list, thus sayeth thine Heavenly Mother.

10
soulureMoroni's Promise is Confirmation Bias•

Haha so good, want this on a card to give to missionaries knocking at the door.

3
whitethunder9The lion, the tiger, the bear (oh my)•

So many LOLz

1
Will_Powerneo-danite•

Re: #4. Um, what?

0
[deleted]•
1
Will_Powerneo-danite•

So messed up. Maybe the church will take over Lagoon next.

0
dante2810•

The most profound moment in the founding of TSCC was JS first vision.
Why did he take so long to discuss it and why was it not recounted to the members of the church until 10 years after TSCC was founded??

17
Gobfranklin•

And why did it only come up during a period of massive apostasy, when people were questioning Joe's credibility?

9
neutralpiehotel2•

This is something that has been bothering me, because in the JS movie, doesn't he tell people right after it happens? So they aren't just kind of lying about the story, they are really lying about the story...

4
I_Love_Kravy•

Yeah, I think the first vision is the biggest lie. Also the biggest reason to believe in the church. Hmmmm.

1
SnozzberryJam•

WTF is the actual point of Baptisms for the Dead, or doing all the endowment work, etc.? I mean, if God is God and really omnipotent and all powerful and all knowing...can't he just know that dead person accepts the church and wants to be Mormon (you're dead and someone is trying to convert you to a certain church, I would think that's a pretty decent giveaway as to what you should, as an aside). Can't he just snap his fingers and be like "cool, works done, you're in, baptized, sealed, etc." Like why does he need measely humans to perform some ritual for him, if he can just be "oh they believe, they're Mormon now /snaps fingers, all done!"

(To answer myself, I'll assume its a combination of just passing down Joseph Smith's circus rituals he made up and just mindlessly accepting them + gotta give TBMs yet another thing to occupy their time and invest their lives into, because goodness forbid they have 12 seconds to spare to sit and think and realize what dipshittery it all is.)

16
Gobfranklin•

Can we please use the proper name of "necrodunking" when referring to this sacred ordinance? I mean, have a little respect!

14
SnozzberryJam•

Holy shit, I am using that one forever.

5
spideroggie•

I like this one. Like all these souls are waiting on us? Seems an asshole move to me Mormon God.

9
SnozzberryJam•

Can you imagined if like the "missionary work" had been done for them in the afterlife (...i...never really understood how that worked, but whatever) and they were like "oh hell yeah, gonna be Mormon, first kingdom here i come," but then TBMs never got to them before the second coming. Eternity in a lower kingdom because us measly humans didn't jump through a stupid arbitrary hoops fast enough doing something an omnipotent god could have done himself with an eye blink. Sounds fair!

1
cloistered_around•

I spent much of my mormon life trying to figure out just that. An omnipotent all powerful god wouldn't just give us busy work, right? There had to be something we learned or some physical spiritual change....thing going on.

Imagine my disappointment when there wasn't.

2
whitethunder9The lion, the tiger, the bear (oh my)•

If the gospel is so simple and plain and precious, why is it that even the most apt gospel scholars and church leaders can't consistently tell when god is speaking to them? How is someone with an IQ of 80 supposed to ever figure it out?

14
InnerChutzpah•

What do they do with all that tithing money?

12
Andy1816•

Always the best question for a religion!

2
silentlyshouting•

A few off the top of my head:

1- Premortal life: they teach that Satan wanted all the glory but Christ didn't want any of it but wanted all the glory to go the father. But them why is all the glory going to Christ? Jesus did this and that, glory to his name, he's our savior, church named after him, etc. What's the difference?

2- If the LDS church is led by revelation, why didn't God bother telling 10 different prophets that banning blacks from the priesthood, temple, being sealed, missionary service, etc was outright racist false doctrine and not his will?

3- In the LDS church's recent DNA essay, it sites a study that agrees people came across the land bridge to the Americas 10,000+ years ago and they inhabited the Americas and are among the ancestors of the native people of this hemisphere. How the do you explain a literal flood that supposedly happened only around 5,000 years ago and killed everyone on earth minus those on the ark?

11
Sasq2222•

Why the fuck should I trust the words of a guy who used seer stones to hunt treasure? We have things we call people who do that- Crazy, conman, mentally ill, liar.... but certainly not prophet.

10
howardcordPay Lay Ales & Lagers•

Why did Lehi and his family build a boat on the Red Sea instead of the Mediterranean Sea so they could sail to America?

From Jerusalem, the coast of the Mediterranean Sea is closer and the path from there to America is half the distance since they wouldn't have to sail around the Horn of Africa or across the Pacific.

Did Joseph just include the Red Sea since it is mentioned in the Bible?

10
[deleted]•

And why does a river run into the Red Sea?

2
ocexmoyouhoWorst Counselor•

You just blew my mind with geography. Makes the trip seem even more impossible.

1
[deleted]•

Just cause we don't have a record of it does't mean it didn't occur. Perhaps he did visit other people? Nothing says he only visited South America and Israel.

My question's are related to stories in the Bible - Noah, Red Sea, Tower of Babel all seem pretty implausible. I have been Scuba Diving in the Red Sea, it is deep and steep and there is no way someone could have crossed any part of it that I have seen, were it dry. And Noah....don't get me started on that one.

5
Me-Here-NowHeavenly Mother•

My question: God?

How many are there anyway" does the mormon god have a god that he has to answer to? Is it gods all the way down? Is satan a god, he must be if he is planning to challenge the god god.

Why are all of god's plans so convoluted? Like the flood, that is the best plan he can come up with? Or "restoring" his church? He tells his big plan to ONE dude and that guy is suppose to tell everyone else? Just too many to mention...

And temples. Some of my family converted way back and had to leave Denmark, on sailing ships, and get to Utah. Partly because they had to get to a temple. As a child, way back in the old days the 50's -60's I couldn't figure out how the people who converted to mormonism but lived in other countries were suppose to get to a temple. So now there are temples everywhere, which brings us to the next question:

How is it that gods "one true church on earth today, restored in it's fullness" , also is a growing living changing thing?

And if families are so important, why does the "gospel" tear them apart?

5
PA2012OP•

Your question about the one true church being restored in its fullness, but that it is changing is an interesting one. Especially because that is one argument apologists use for previous mistakes from latter day prophets: that the prophets/the church was learning line up one line. But how could they be adding line upon line on the one true church restored with the fullness of the gospel?

2
Me-Here-NowHeavenly Mother•

For me, it becomes particularly difficult when I share some part of my journey out of "the church" with some well meaning mormon, and they say, oh we don't do that anymore, or we have this new deal now. I just smile and say that having it now doesn't help me 20 years ago when I needed it.

2
koriwhore•

If Monson is a prophet, what has he successfully foretold?

5
saywaaah•

All those people addicted to porn and what not, he totally called that one!

2
felurian42•

If there are situations that "will be sorted out by God in the next life, so don't worry about it now," such as eternal families with a divorce, and their kids BIC, and adoptions, why can't God sort everyone out? Why do we need to do sealings if some people get it taken care of later? If its an eternal commandment, why do they get a pass?

5
fluteitup•

Where did the original set of plates go? Joe gave them to his buddy to show off to buddy's wife and they disappear. Wouldn't they like... show up? Or a record of their sale or something...?

4
Mysid•

You are confusing the gold plates with the manuscript of the first 100+ pages "translated". Martin Harris gave the manuscript to his wife Lucy, who kept them to test Joseph Smith. The manuscript has never been seen again. The gold plates were supposedly taken back to heaven by an angel because God was pissed off about Joe being bested by Lucy.

(Watch the Mormon episode of South Park.)

So a TBM will say the original set of plates are in heaven.

4
articulett•

A better question might be-- if god wanted everyone to be Mormon, why wouldn't he just leave the gold plates around as confirmation? Why would he reveal himself so cryptically to a known conman?

5
fluteitup•

I see. I recall there being the big set of plates and the small set of plates. I thought he gave away the big set of plates but you're right, it was the manuscript and he had to go to the small set so she wouldn't edit the first manuscript and prove its false

2
acuteskepsisAddressing the curelom in the room•

There are lots of sets of plates mentioned in the Book of Mormon, including small and large plates of Nephi, which might be what is ringing a bell for you. But the gold plates were (supposedly) an abridgment of all those; there were no other plates Joseph received.

(But really none of them exist in the first place. :P)

2
fluteitup•

Weird. I know for a fact my seminary teachers said that he had started on the big plates and moved to the small ones to avoid a difference in the pages he'd written... and how they wished they could have read the big plates instead...

2
[deleted]•

Why did Old Testament prophets and Jesus come from outside the Levitical priesthood order to challenge the establishment, but Mormonism conflates prophets and priesthood?

4
possiblea2m•

So my question now is this: didn't he love the people of China, India, Australia, Africa etc? Why didn't he visit any of those people and establish his church there after he was resurrected? Especially given the new essay refuting that dark skin is a curse, we know the reason he isn't visit is because they were cursed for their dark skin.

Common answer is he did, we just don't know about it yet.

Most obvious: How can the evil men change the 116 pages when they were written in ink?

It's SO BLOODY OBVIOUS I seriously questioned whether or not I was intelligent when I read it on MormonThink.

4
lw1n3•

Despite visits to Nauvoo and Carthage at least twice a year for my entire childhood, never, not even once, did anyone ask WHY Joseph was in that jail in the first place.

Also, live in a place with shoddy or nonexistant record keeping (i.e. most of history), too bad, we can't dead dunk you without your name, you fail.

4
missalyss7•

Maybe not a question, but it took me a while to realize there were no women in the BoM. Though 'slutty' or 'shameful' or 'pious,' there are at least key women in the bible! I guess God is just a damn sexist.

4
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
missalyss7•

Haha Sariah who is only the mother of "important" people and I don't even know who Abish is. Or Isabel... lol

1
curious_mormonTruth never lost ground by enquiry.•

Why do the scriptures keep contradicting themselves? Aren't these supposed to be the word of God... oh, men making shit up while stealing from a variety of sources? Yeah, that totally makes sense now.

3
JoJoRumbles•

Since the church is so very gender segregated in regards to church roles, how does the church deal with transgender members (assuming they were welcome)?

Are MtF's no longer allowed to receive the priesthood? Are FtM's allowed to? What about intersex members?

3
acuteskepsisAddressing the curelom in the room•

Transgenders are pretty much automatically excommunicated. I've known a few.

2
JoJoRumbles•

And now you know another on the Internet :-)

2
acuteskepsisAddressing the curelom in the room•

Nice to "meet" you. :D

2
Louchlyn•

When ever some one says "I know the Church is true and you can pray to get your own answer" I'd ask them to tell me about the time they got their answer.

I'm willing to bet 90% of them haven't even had an experience that can be called a "spiritual wittness after prayer".

We are socially converted to the social structure of the Church and then say "we know" because we were taught to. I don't recall a single fast and testimony meeting where someone confirmed Mormoni's promoise.

I'd bet that 9 times out of ten if you ask someone testifying of Moroni's promise about their own experience they'd come up empty. Kinda stops them dead in their tracks.

3
koriwhore•

Even as a TBM, it struck me as odd how often I heard people say that they prayed and prayed and prayed about the Book of Mormon and couldn't get an answer--and then finally, their "answer" was the spirit telling them that they weren't going to get an earth-shattering revelation, because they already knew it was true.

2

Or like my father in law who realized that 'he already had a testimony' so he didn't need to worry about it anymore.

1