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r/asoiaf•
YoLookAtThatTree

(Spoilers All) Knight of the Laughing Tree identity clue

ALL

So Lyanna Stark was totally the Knight of the Laughing Tree, right? We're all there by now for the most part, but I just came across a detail in ADWD that may give her away for certain (and should have had anyone familiar with the Stark godswood scratching their beards with a sense of familiarity that day at Harrenhal).

In The Prince of Winterfell chapter, Theon's just given Jeyne away to Crazypants Bolton when...

Theon stepped back, and Ramsay and his bride joined hands and knelt before the heart tree, bowing their heads in token of submission. The weirwood's carved red eyes stared down at them, its great red mouth open as if to laugh.

As I type this, I realize this doesn't preclude the Knight from being one of the Stark boys who attended, but does anyone out there think that might be the case?

It seems clear to me that Lyanna was betting on no one remembering their match-the-face-to-the-weirwood training from their youth and it paid off.

Thoughts?

Also, I'm a total noob (are people still saying noob?) at this, so sorry if I screwed up this post in any way.

Posted May 19, 2014, 8:39 PM UTC

4845
MotorBoatBrrr•

It was Lyanna. When Arys sent Raegar to go investigate, he discovered the truth and that's where his love for Lyanna started, that's why he reported to his father that he couldn't find the mystery knight. Thereafter, he crowned her his Queen of love and beauty, as a sort of nod to her talents.

92
ninja-robot•

It makes good sense, before Raegar had no interaction with Lyanna so there was to reason to name her the Queen of love and beauty or abduct/elope with her. Him finding out she was a badass warrior woman who also stands up to bullies and is honorable is a very plausible way for him to have fallen for her and he was already looking for a way to have another child since he needed 3 for whatever it was and his current wife was now barren.

This also means that the event which launched Roberts Rebellion and thus lead to everything happening in the books started because of Howland Reed and 3 bully boys.

28
dreamgalaxies•

good points, but why did he need 3 kids?

3
hairabThe pie that was promised...•

3 heads of the dragon

9
koriliFuck the King in the North•

No. The Prince that was promised had 3 children.

2
LostapostleThey see me R'hllorin, they hatin•

Oooh shit....

26
oldnan69Six Kingdoms and a Movie•

FUCKING CONFIRMED

9
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1†
TA4LyfeStrength and Honour•

I feel like it has to be Lyanna out of all the candidates since I can't see Brandon or Ned sitting down to paint the sheild when they could enter the lists as themselves with there own armour there is no reason to hide, not to mention Brandon loses at the tourney anyway so we no he probably didn't do it.

17
EthanLurks"What we don't know is what usually gets us killed."•

How hilarious would it be if it was discovered that the secret Lyanna made Ned "promise" to keep was that she just dressed up like a knight to kick princes' butts, and not that she carried the lovechild of Rhaegar Targaryen?

29
[deleted]•

After Jon discovers this information he desperately pleads a wounded and dying Howland Reed to tell him about his mother. Howland leans in closely, barely managing to choke out the words "Some...chick....named...Wylla. Ned....plowed that..."

74
IHaventABloodyClueMiddle Liddle ain't Little •

Booming voice > covering up her own voice. Ridiculously good horseman > she's a half-centaur Short in stature > Brandon was tall, still could be Ned but I think he is middling height

13
TA4LyfeStrength and Honour•

I agree

0
ninja-robot•

Brandon or Ned could have just entered the tournament and Howland would have reveled who he was if he won.

2
grogleberry•

I know people always quote that Lyanna was "half-horse" and that 90% of jousting was horsemanship but I just don't believe that a 13 year old girl can carry a 14ft lance, armour and a shield.

That's what makes the least sense to me. Dunk is 6ft6 and even he struggled with the lance. A weedly little girl wouldn't even be able to hold it off the ground.

14
WislaHDThe King Who Used To Care•

I don't disagree but I believe Lyanna was 14 or 15 at the tourney of Harrenhal. She is still described as a twig of a girl even then though.

11
MotorBoatBrrr•

Dunk is 6'11 (an inch short of 7 foot, as measured by Aemon at the Citadel)

2
grogleberry•

I think he was shorter in the Hedge Knight (he was younger).

2
jesterx7769Sexy Red Widow•

I would like to say it wasn't Lyanna but there really isn't evidence for much more.

-Short

-Knew of Howland being bullied

-Decently skilled (but not great)

There are extremely few possibilities that could fit this.

8
AxelFoe•

... And something tells me Howland Reed wouldn't fit those requirements, meaning he would be too strong to fit. We still have but a glimpse through Eddard's dreams and faded memories of what exactly happened beneath the Tower of Joy, and how did the fight end up with Ned and Howland as the last men standing. Yet, not only did all the rest of Ned's fellowship perish during the fight, but it is also clearly stated that Howland himself saved Eddard's life, managing to oppose such a formidable and skilled Knight as Arthur Dayne. Of course this doesn't make a flawless argument, especially since we have not yet received any specific details, but I would safely assume that either Howland is a very, very skilled swordsman himself (which is not) , or he has access to "other" sorts of power. Moreover, Lyanna being the Knight of the Laughing Tree would have given Howland an excellent reason to ride alongside Ned towards the infamous Tower, thus rescuing from (supposed) harm the very Knight who came in his defense back at the tourney.

I guess that Jojen's reaction could have very simple explanations: after the KotLT appearance, the she-wolf shared her secret with the crannogman and her brothers, so they could have a laugh about it. Or maybe just with her brothers, and then later on Ned told Howland the truth. Or perhaps Howland and Ned just added things up and came out with a very reasonable explanation.

1
SurtainDeth•

I still think it was Ned. Ned was short because he was still young. And he didn't enter the list as himself because he doesn't do tourneys. Mainly I think it was him because of the way Jojen was so shocked that he had never told Bran the story. They way he kept saying "really, your dad never told you this" made it seem like it was him.

6
thedwarfthatrides•

You... Me.... Same boat...

3
TotallyUnqualified•

... Ned knew from Lyanna...

1
Blevinbrown•

I really don't think there is sufficient evidence to really definitively identify the knight of the laughing tree. That being said, there are a few reasons it seems unlikely that Lyanna was the knight. First, she had to joust three times. I assume that she was prominently seated, and therefore her absence would have been obvious. Second, she would have needed to defeat three prominent knights, with no experience. Third, the knight is said to have spoken with a 'booming' voice. Ignoring the fact that I've always assumed Lyanna was sort of quite, she has never been described as really butch. I don't think her speaking voice, even if disguised, would have been described as a booming male voice.

My personal theory is that the knight of the laughing tree was Bloodraven. Although, I can't tell you precisely how. I also prescribe to the theory that Howland = Jojen. The operative portion of the story is when Howland prays to the weirwood. I don't believe crannogmeb pray to the old gods, so this is a little weird. Shortly after he prays, a knight with a sigil of a weir wood tree appears. This knight is skilled enough to defeat three knights handedly. He then disappears. His armor is found in the branches of a weirwood tree. This also explains how Bloodraven and Howland/Jojen became involved with one another.

I think that Jojens true identity will be confirmed early in TWOW and Bloodraven will explain what happened at Harrenhall. I also think Jojen will have Meera take him south. He will meet Jon shortly before he (Howland) dies, and tell him about his parents, and about Bran.

3†
the_new_hunter_s~The Night is Dark and Full of Brynden~•

The crannogmen are closer to the old God's than anyone else in ASOIAF...

25
nfrielI am the Bat•

Multiple people in the series acknowledge that being a good jouster is mostly being a good horseman. And if Lyanna is described as anything, it's a good horsewoman. Really good. Roose Bolton says so, Harwin says so, Lady Dustin says so. Could she have beaten Jaime or Barristan in their prime? Doubtful. But she knew how to handle a horse, and that might have been enough to beat a Frey, a Blount, and a Haigh (especially considering we know next to nothing about the Blounts - except how bad of a knight Boros is - and actually nothing about the Haighs, who are vassals of vassals).

As to the voice, when Brienne wins the melee at Bitterbridge during Renly's brief tenure, Catelyn thinks her voice sounds muffled, and attributes it to the dented greathelm she was wearing, but still thinks Brienne is a man until someone tells her otherwise. Lyanna was probably wearing an old, dented helm as well, and combining the distortion of her voice from that and the probability of her putting on a booming voice makes it at least possible that Lyanna was the KotLT.

12
Blevinbrown•

I think there's a big difference between Breanne and 13 year old Lyanna. I know she was a good horsewoman, but still, 13 year old girl vs three grown nights. In a joust. I don't think she could've held the lance. Also, wouldn't her absence be very noticeable? Pretty clear she had a front row seat. With all of the curiosity around the knight, wouldn't someone have noticed that Lyanna was gone for all three jousts.

3
nfrielI am the Bat•

Well, first, Lyanna was 14 by the time of the tourney, IIRC.

Second, one of the Sand Snakes, 14 year old Elia, is mentioned as being skilled (or growing skilled) with a lance. Here's the convo:

Valena wheeled her big red around and put her heels into him, and the race was on, through the dusty lanes of the village at the bottom of the hill, as chickens and villagers alike scrambled out of their path. Arianne was three horse lengths behind by the time she got her mare up to a gallop, but had closed to one halfway up the slope. The two of them were side-by-side as they thundered towards the gatehouse, but five yards from the gates Elia Sand came flying from the cloud of dust behind them to rush past both of them on her black filly.

"Are you half horse, child?" Valena asked, laughing, in the yard. "Princess, did you bring a stable girl?"

"I'm Elia," the girl announced. "Lady Lance."

Whoever hung that name on her has much to answer for. Like as not it had been Prince Oberyn, though, and the Red Viper had never answered to anyone but himself.

"The girl jouster," Valena said. "Yes, I've heard of you.

If Valena Toland has heard of her, it stands to reason that Elia's been doing this for at least a fair amount of time. And while Elia was probably practicing a lot more than Lyanna ever would have, her reputation shows that it's not impossible for a 14 year old girl to hold a lance.

Third, the tourney of Harrenhal is a huge event, because seemingly every major family (except the Lannisters, unless you count Jaime, and even they have representatives and bannermen there) has someone go. The Starks aren't the only important family there - hell, even the king is there! In a tourney of probably quite a few jousts, would anyone really be focusing on the fact that one girl wasn't there for a few of them? People might have stuck around to watch favorites, but I doubt everybody was there for every joust.

2
Blevinbrown•

I really don't think you can compare Lyanna to Elia with this little evidence. Is it possible that Lyanna could have secretly been a pro jouster? Yes. But probably not. We also know that she was sitting fairly close to Elia, Rhaegar's wife, when he won the tournament. I think that it easily could have raised suspicions if she was absent the entire time. Also, Lyanna has a lot of symbolism attached to her: blue rose, lady wolf, so on. A weirwood tree is not one of those symbols attached to her in particular. I can't really see how GRRM explains all of this: Lyanna was a secret jouster capable of defeating experienced and successful knights, she was able to slip away and patch together a suit of armor without being noticed, she was able to be confused with a grown man at 14, and she chose of all things a weirwood tree as her sigil. Can he explain these things? Yes. Is it the simplest solution that is most conducive to furthering the plot? No. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's unlikely. As for Bloodraven, that's more of a personal feeling. The evidence for him is equally weak.

1
Brambleston•

I think the BOOMING voice was more her attempt at pretending to be male. For a woman to have an accurate male voice or vice versa is hard and people tend to go overboard with it like in this scene, Life of Brain

7
wafflesnsyrupSick burn!•

13 year old girls' voices don't normally boom

2
AxelFoe•

And why wouldn't the crannogmen pray to the old Gods? As far as I know, their people is among the closest to the children of the forest and the arcane powers... Besides, I find your Howland = Jojen theory quite mind blowing. Would love to see it coming true

1
Blevinbrown•

Thanks! As far as the old gods are concerned, you are absolutely right. I guess my surprise is around him praying to a weirwood, and then being championed by a mysterious Knight with a weirwood sigil. I would love to see the Johen=Howland theory come true, and there is a pretty solid amount of evidence for it (as far as tinfoil goes)

1
AxelFoe•

I know this could be labeled as madness... But nevertheless, what if Jojen and Meera are both Howland Reed, or, more precisely, the two parts in which Howland for some reason split? They look similar enough to be brothers, yet opposite in many ways through their descriptions, with Meera having a "physical" nature, being skilled with weapons, hunting etc. And Jojen being Howland's spiritual vessel, his nature sickly and mysterious, greensight and everything?

During Meera's tale, Bran himself pictures the crannogman as "Jojen, only older and stronger and dressed like Meera".

OK, that was too much. Please bring me back to reality and out of this madness. I need to read TWOW if I'm to avoid waking up in the middle of the night with the idea of Hodor as the Prince That was Promised.

1
shadowfox06So End Our Foes•

Wait, so it wasn't Howland Reed? I do admit I like the idea of it being Lyanna waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

2
[deleted]•

If he were Howland Reed, why he let them bully himself in the first place?

1
shadowfox06So End Our Foes•

Because he's a crannogmen who isn't in the neck, probably not much he could do about it.

1
lfcsavolver•

i hadn't heard this theory before... is there a link to the full original discussion?

1
KuiperWolfKnight of the Laughing Tree•

New ones pop up every week, but here is the best. http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/u6vw3/spoiler_all_knight_of_the_laughing_tree_analysis/

2
BadeauDarkness will be your mother's milk•

These reddit forums are just fucking awesome - so many theories - so many debates - and every one just wanting answers - after the last book comes out Grr Martin needs to have a ASOIAF Fest - where he sits down and just answers question after question -

1
TotallyUnqualified•

It was definitely Lyanna.

1