I loaded up the demo for rF2 last night and was pretty much blown away. However, having gotten a little carried away with the Steam Summer Sale (as always) I'm not ready to pull the trigger and purchase just yet.
I'm wondering how long I should wait, if it will eventually go on sale, like iracing is right now. (I looked at iracing and I can't see myself sustaining their business model.)
Posted Jun 26, 2014, 8:01 PM UTC
I'd be highly surprised if it did, given its age. Well worth getting it though, theres some awesome mods available for it, which really make it what it is.
I've tried iRacing and didn't enjoy the experience at all. (The physics just didn't feel right to me, cars just lost grip in ridiculous situations.)
I've driven Brands Hatch, and I've driven an MX5 - So I KNOW that an MX5 won't lose traction the way it did in iRacing. Personally I think they make the physics too challenging, in an attempt to make people feel elite for even managing to get a successful lap in.
Just my $0.02 but there's a reason people call it iceRacing!
The relevant question to a post like this is always "when exactly did you drive it?". Not that I'm entirely disagreeing with your opinion, but the changing nature of iRacing means that you usually have to be car and build specific for an opinion to have meaningful value.
The MX5 on NTMv4 (2-3 builds ago) was said to be very accurate by a real life MX5 Playboy Cup driver to the extent that he could use his real life setup on it (and vice versa) and have it behave pretty much identically.
Probably about 6 months ago.
I appreciate that these things are all tweaked and adjusted over time, but if a well established and released game varies so much in a relatively small space of time, then one has to question the validity of the physics in general.
The MX5 wasn't new to the game by any means when I tested it, so why has it (Theoretically) changed so wildly over recent months?
I have a friend who races in a small MX5 league, and while he hasn't played any sims, he was very surprised to hear that a simulation of one was able to lose grip when smoothly turning into Druids bend at ~35mph with no brakes and no throttle (A corner he takes considerably faster in a real MX5.)
I'm not trying to discredit what you've said - I simply didn't feel like the game I played, had any real comparison to the driving I'd done in the real thing.
Tl;Dr: iRacing may have gotten better over the past months but if it's changed that much, so long after release, I question their ability to get it right at all.
The MX5 wasn't new to the game by any means when I tested it, so why has it (Theoretically) changed so wildly over recent months?
Tyre model. Long story short, they are working on an ambitious theoretical tyre model which has quirks that has manifested itself in different cars at different points of development.
Also, sounds like you had some trouble with off throttle oversteer, which has occasionally been one of those quirks I talked about. Also likely exacerbated by the fact that the default setups on these cars tend to be more aggressive than other sims as they often get help from real life drivers to build them.
iRacing may have gotten better over the past months but if it's changed that much, so long after release, I question their ability to get it right at all.
Its not as simple as that. The tyre model iRacing started off on was an old school Pacekja empirical model (think lookup tables). Its a model that could give great results, but was limited to what data you could acquire on a given tyre, and data is hard to get. A few years back they moved to a dynamic theoretical tyre model where they can essentially build a tyre virtually (dimensions, specify rubber compound, etc) and the model essentially simulates that. Obviously that is incredibly complex as fixing a bug or quirk is no longer as simple as changing a number because everything is so closely linked (for instance, fixing one thing could break 5 other things, specifically on 2 other cars). Think of it as the difference between how FSX and X-Plane approach their physics, except tyre modelling is far far more complex.
Very interesting insight - Can't say I know enough about the development side of things to weigh in!
Maybe I'll give it another go at some point - There often seems to be trials and deals floating around the web.
For now I'm enjoying pCARS and rFactor a grea deal - Happy racing!
I read somewhere that the "definitive" tyre model is close by, do you have info on that regard ?
That was me. It was amazing, now it's trash.
Mr. Skeer! I don't have the real life experience to compare it to, but by 'trash' do you mean that its simply no longer accurate to your real car or that there is something fundamentally off beyond the point of believability (even to someone who hasnt driven one) like how it was when it was first given the NTM?
Yeah you pretty much nailed it! The first edition of the MX5 came out while I was at Mazda's Shootout (my first time in a real MX5), so I had experienced them both for the first time, within 24 hours. I was pretty amazed at how close it was on the NTMv1...then NTMv2 came out.
NTMv2 was stupid good, the car was as close as I would ever want it to the real car, much more lateral grip and I could feel the sidewalls flexing from the top tread all the way to the wheel... then NTMv3 was announced.
v3 and v4 were the peak of this car. They did not change much on it between the two so I'll lump them together for this. v4 was the best sim car I have ever driven, blew away anything made for rFactor Pro even. Everything from my throttle input patterns to my initial steering inputs to purposefully kicking out the rear was exact. The car could be setup to be twitchy or tight, exactly like the real one.
Once I noticed that, I would build setups on iRacing the week before the real event, then run them on the real car. First 3 weekends, 6 races, 5 podiums, 3 wins, 2 setup changes from my iR sets. It was EXACT.
V5 has been the biggest letdown for me in gaming. I took about 3 months off from the car after the end of the 13' season to just relax. When my friend told me that it was updated, I decided to try it at my best/favorite track, Rd. Atl. Looped it into T1 on my first lap...my best corner in racing. I thought it was my setup, so I ran the baseline...even worse.
I have never been able to make the NTMv5 have any sort of lateral flex, the tire skates across the surface of the track hanging on by the friction of the solid tire to the ground. The best way I can put it is they took off the rubber sidewalls and put some plastic in there, a little bit of flex, but nowhere near the real tires (which dont have much to begin with).
I'm afraid we have seen the best of this car, unless they go back a few builds, which I never see happening.
I've never understood why people call it iceracing, maybe because I've only driven on NTMv5. The cars are very controllable and easy to drive, a lot easier than stuff like game stock car and assetto corsa.
Assetto Corsa cars are definitely easier, they're more grippy.
The sim used to be called iceRacing back around NTMv1 and NTMv2 because cars were very slippery. The problems have been fixed, however.
iRacing feels very realistic. The MX5 is a bit understeery but all the cars feel great.
It's no longer called iceRacing anymore, they've fixed the problem through many tire model updates.
Sorry for breaking the anti-iRacing circlejerk, friends. Carry on.
Sorry if I started something there - It was only an off the cuff comment!
I've definitely heard enough praise to give it another go at some point, maybe I just didn't give it enough of a chance at first glance.
Nice to have a proper discussion with you all - Too often these things descend into poop-flinging!
There seems to be tension in the sim-racing community when discussing certain topics... :)
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Not that I know of.
I've never heard a hint of it going on sale. It seems like ISI is happy with the rate at which it's selling... doesn't seem to be hurting them with acquiring licenses and developing content.
It really is quite reasonably priced.
Yeah, it's not like it's that expensive to begin with.