Van Gaal: "It's better to lose 7-1 than on penalties"
marca.com/2014/07/11/en/football/internationa...
marca.comPosted Jul 11, 2014, 10:10 PM UTC
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marca.comI'd rather not be humiliated 7-1. I think I'd rather take a team to penalties where you can still win.
259
Not when you make sure that your goalie is mentally fucked up.
70
Why do you say that? Surely Cillessen has more mental fortitude than that, otherwise he might as well retire.
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He's never caught a penalty before. He was subbed without consultation, and had a tantrum about it. Later apologised. Against arg he wasnt subbed, so the pressure was on him even though he knew no one had confidence in him. Given his track record, of course he didn't block a single penalty, and cost ned a place in the final.
Coach later adds insult to injury and says it was a mistake not to take him off against arg. He's probably gutted now. Performance aside, there were some seriously dysfunctional interpersonal issues in the ned team.
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The coach didn't say it was a mistake to keep him on. He said that if he had the option to put Krul on he would have done it, but he had to sub two players and put Huntelaar in for RVP to try to win the match. Obviously it didn't work out this time.
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and cost ned a place in the final.
That's a a bit... harsh.
13
He didn't cost them a place in the final. One man alone is never to blame, so that comment is extremely harsh and wrong.
Also, don't know why he should be whining too much. He is still first choice keeper for Netherlands and if he has issues with penalties, which are clear, he should work at it. He is still obviously regarded as a good keeper so he shouldn't dwell on the fact he's shit at penalties. Take it as constructive criticism and work on it.
10
"seriously dysfunctional interpersonal issues in the ned team" that's not like the Dutch team......
8
there were some seriously dysfunctional interpersonal issues in the ned team.
Also 2 players refused to strike the first penalty...
7
missing the first penalty was the bigger mistake vlar should never have taken it they were always on the back foot then unless they had a display of heroics from cillessen which as you explain wasn't best fit to save any.
-1†
I don't think so. I think it's a bit much to ask for to be honest.
-4
That a national first choice goalkeeper, for a top ten nation, has the mental fortitude to overcome his coach's choice to use a specialist for a very specialized skill? Seriously, if he wasn't burning with desire to prove Van Gaal wrong when he got his chance at the penalties, I can't see him getting very far in his career.
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He is already implying that you lost. He is saying that its better go out quickly then suffer till the end and go out anyway. Its just like death.
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Brazil suffered plenty in those 90 minutes. I'm sure they were begging for the FT whistle in their heads.
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after Kroos robbed that ball.. i think it was the 4rd goal.. i just could not see it anymore.. it was like seeing someone from your family being ruthless beating down by a gang and not be able to do anything to help.. watch it its just pure masoquism.. it really hurts you..
But in the stadium i would hang til the end to support.. its not reasonable to cheer up in good times and just walk away in bad times..
No matter who is the wrong one.. they to the best they can for us, our country.. i only have my doubts about Fred.. :)
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4rd
Heh, ford. :D
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4rd
It looks so wrong
5
Have you ever played? I've lost like this before and it's awful you just want it to end. Going to a shootout is more fun.
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Well, I typed "HE" twice, it can't get more clear than that
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The worst of it is if the goals come early in the first half, and you're forced to play on in front of a jeering crowd rather than hide in your locker room to cry.
Give me a loss via penalties any day rather than that.
7
Yeah, there's no shame in losing in penalties. It's widely understood to be not much better than a coin toss. And it's implied that both teams battled it out evenly until penalties. Unlike being systematically raped for the world to watch. (Shh, I've seen my flair) The worst part was the booing. Truly hard to watch.
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This is being taken out of proportion....it was all about the fact that he said that both teams are going there pretty much "down" and they would potentially leaving the tournament with 2 consecutive losses despite having had a good tournament.
To the question of the interviewer if a 1-7 humiliation wouldn't be a much bigger moral blow, he answered that losing in penalties is probably at least just as worse (which makes kinda sense considering brazil pretty much knew they where out after 20 minutes, while the netherlands went out pretty much the second the referee ended the game).
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Penalties goes down as a draw officially for rankings and records, so nobody loses!
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No, definitely not. If we had lost on penalties vs Chile, it would have been really disappointing, but at least we wouldn't have suffered complete humiliation on our own soil.
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Brazil going out at home in the round of 16 would have just been a different kind of humiliation though wouldn't it?
56
But with the benefit of hindsight I think crashing out that early on penalties is still the more desirable option than making a run to the semis and then getting absolutely thrashed out of the tournament. One is embarrassing, but the other is being immortalized as the Mineirazo. Would that have happened if Brazil went out earlier? I'm not so sure.
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Funny the match against Chile was in Mineirão. It would still be a Mineirazo.
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Probably just a Mineirinho, or at best a Mineireco.
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It wouldn't have the same impact, though. It would be ultimately disappointing, but we'd just put the "blame" on the penalties (or whoever missed) and moved on, it wouldn't be as heart breaking as ending the first half five goals behind.
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The furthest we've been able to get in the World Cup since 2002 are the quarter finals. It wouldn't have been that surprising or humiliating, I think. Especially when a game is decided by penalties.
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It would've been disappointing, not humiliating.
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It's bad, but not historically bad.
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Van Gaal meaned he would rather lose with 2-0 or something then lose on penalties. Cause then you would have lost properly, no discussion. But he is always extreme and blunt when it comes to dealing with the press.
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I would rather lose 7-1 to a way better team than go out in the round of 16 at home to a worse team to be honest. The 7-1 game was painful at that moment only, its good that things like this happen so we can have drastic changes for the future, when you only have Fred and Jô as your strikers, things need to change in our football.
If Chile eliminated us on penalties, everybody would be blaming the player's emotional right now and it would just hide our real problems.
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If Chile eliminated us on penalties, everybody would be blaming the >player's emotional right now and it would just hide our real problems.
This.
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At least this will put an end to the "oh we were unlucky, we got it next time" bullshit that followed 2006 and 2010 and would've taken place again had we lost on penalties vs Chile. Our team sucked the whole tournament and we deserved the thrashing we got.
I hope - but don't expect - that CBF will learn from it. If not, get ready for a period worse than 70-94.
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get ready for a period worse than 70-94.
I've watched the 86 mexico world cup as a little kid.. and that team.. was really a dream team.. Socrates, Zico, Falcao.. dont remember the rest .. only the goal keeper from colombia (Kanidja..with his big hairdo cant spell) and remember of "Burrochaga" of argentina.. because of the name.. Burro (stupid in portuguese).. and remember we use to mock the other kids with that name..
Argentina had Maradona that time.. That worth 3 moderns strikers by today standards.. but i think the Brazilian team of that time was better as a hole..
Anyway.. just to say that your 70-94 period is unfair at least to them
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I should've have specified, but the reason why I said "period worse than 70-94" is that now our squad is shit. Back then we were the best team, but various factors prevented us from winning 78(rigged game), 82(major defensive fuck up against Italy) or 86(Zico screwed up during regular time and rest of the team during penalties).
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Argentina had Maradona that time.. That worth 3 moderns strikers by today standards
And about 12 strikers by his days standards.
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Agreed. You won't be remembered forever for losing on penalty shoot out. But the 1-7 will be talked about until the end of times. I still prefer to lose on penalties
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I feel like this subreddit front page is going to be an absolute clusterfuck of posts that start with "Van Gaal:" or "Mourinho:" or "Wenger:" before we make it half way through the Premier League season.
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I'm just happy the PL has 3 managers consistently getting shat on. With AVB and tactics Tim gone, Wenger and Mourinho were getting lonely. Granted, only Sherwood deserved anywhere near the shit they got.
(No offense).
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What do you think of the shit Sherwood got?
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Tottenham!
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Thank you!
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He chose to manage them
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And here we can see the typical reddit Arsenal fan with his pathetic excuse for banter.
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But who will be out tacticed this year?
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Good ol' 'arry's back in the Prem now, so we can look forward to that.
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With AVB and tactics Tim gone, Wenger and Mourinho were getting lonely.
Well, they had Moyes keeping them company.
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Van Gaal will aspire to be at his level
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And the three horse race is restored..
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Wait... You think Wenger consistently gets shat on? What do you mean?
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He seems to get shat on by Arsenal fans more than anything else.
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There's a lot of circlejerking going on for sure.
Plus, the last few posts about Van Gaal seem to have been poorly translated while leaving out crucial parts that nuance what he says. For example after the loss against Argentina people were saying he's nuts for claiming the Dutch were better. He didn't say that: in the Dutch interview he said we played great, maybe even better than Argentina, especially in the second half.
I don't know the source for this interview, but I'm going to take it with a grain of salt until I hear what he said in Dutch.
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Did you forget that our very dear 'arry is back in the league now? The media's more excited about this season than any supporter is right now.
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Is that a fat Messi?
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I thought you were talking about the dog at first and looked to see if it resembled Messi
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So did I and I think it kinda does.
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What the fuck.
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This works on more than one level seeing as Keanu produced and presented the documentary Side By Side a few years ago.
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I was gonna joke that he looks just like Keanu Reaves... then I googled an image of him to compare and I'm blown away. What the fuck happened?
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I'm still not convinced it isn't Jason Bateman
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Maybe he means its worse to get so close and then not win.
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He means you can lose in penalties even though you were the better team. But if you lose 7-1 its because you played poorly and its a fair win.
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It's like he didn't even watch the World Cup. Netherlands weren't the better team. The teams were even, and if anything they were worse. The way he's saying it is as if winning on penalties isn't a legitimate win (and I agree it's sort of disappointing to see a team go out on penalties) he never said such a thing when they knocked out Costa Rica on penalties.
-16
That's not what he's saying at all though.
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-2†
I don't know, at least the penalties are over pretty quick. Brazil had to come out to a 0:5. I think I'll rather lose on penalties, but what do I know about it.
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Fair enough yeah. But to get so close and think you're going to win, could be worse. Though a 7-1 thrashing is always going to be awful
8
Fucking Germans and their penalties...
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He means to cheer up Cillessen.
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Yep, Brazil was done after 30minutes and couldnt even get their hopes high
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No its not
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I THINK WE ALL AGREE HERE
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Yeah 7-1 will be remembered 50 years from now. Losing on penalties is something that happens every now and then (or more often for us English)
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Yeah, it isn't.
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Can't he shut up? I'm really proud we lost on penalties and not getting smashed like that. It would have been a really sad ending to our world cup.
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He's going to make the Premier League fun this year, I can tell. Him, Mourinho, and Wenger all trading their wisdom. Gonna be great.
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i think you doubled your flag by accident in your flair there
4†
There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.
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Groovy baby!
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Wow.. so I am not the only who hate the bluntness of Dutch. In some culture this can be seen as rude.
-5
Well every culture is different. I can understand if the bluntness doesn't suit you but yea I prefer it that.
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Opps, I am being blunt myself. Let me rephrase: I can't say I appreciate that kind of bluntness =)
-1
This is pretty rich coming from a german.
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I am not a German, just a supporter of their national team.
I am an Asian :)
-3
I don't hate the Dutch, I love them. That's why I hold them to a higher standard.
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I've read this thread and I'm going to present a dissenting opinion (in comparison to the rest of the opinions here) and actually agree with Van Gaal (I'm Brazilian btw).
The absolute smackdown we got from Germany was humiliating. It hurt. It still does. But it showed us Brazilians that there are necessary changes that need to be done to our FA, to our youth squads (at a national and club level), to our clubs, to our coaches, and to our way of playing/teaching soccer. The Germans started realizing this in 2002 in their loss to us and this idea fully took hold when they, too, were knocked out in the semis on their on soil in 2006. After that, they completely overhauled the above and look where they are now. If we had dragged that game to penalties, or lost 2-1, 1-0, 3-1, etc., no one would see the need for change.
[SIDE NOTE: CBF is in talks with Felipão about extending his contract for another SIX FUCKING MONTHS instead of bringing in someone knew. Just goes to show how deep in the sand Felipão and his dimwitted and arrogant posse have buried their heads.]
Furthermore, as others have said in this thread, if a match ends up on penalties, it is EXTREMELY frustrating and stressful in-and-of-itself, and to lose is even worse. I was on the edge of my seat preparing myself for a heart attack during the HOL x ARG shootout and I don't even cheer for either of those teams (I will admit I was heavily cheering against ARG). During our loss to Germany, my reactions were as follows:
1st goal: OK we can come back.
2nd: Damn. This is gonna be tough.
3rd: FUCK
4th: Is this real life? I then left the room
5th, 6th, 7th: BAHAHAHAHA COME ON, SCORE MORE! I WANT THIS TO BE A BLOODBATH
So those are my two cents...
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Some changes do need to be made, but I hope they don't throw everything away and start from scratch. The backbone (hue) of the squad is there and should be allowed more time to grow into a real team. Given more time to work I believe Neymar, Oscar, Lucas and co are going to make us proud.
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I hope they do, at least tactically and changing the development of the players and you know, not just focusing on fitting everyone into an attacking mid to be shipped off to Europe. I hope we are able to retain more of our players domestically, because right now the league is pretty shit.
I agree we have good players on the squad now, and those players will continue to be quality (knock on wood) but I think what Zlateh was saying is changes from the foundation have to come.
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It was one game. Every other game we have played before that in the last year and a half has been competitive.
There aren't many teams doing that much better than us and many will agree that it has been a very competitive cup. Even the current dream team Germany was having a hard time against traditionally weaker teams until they destroyed us.
There's always room for improvement, and there are gaps in our system, but throwing everything away seems foolish to me.
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The Germans started realizing this in 2002 in their loss to us and this idea fully took hold when they, too, were knocked out in the semis on their on soil in 2006. After that, they completely overhauled the above and look where they are now
Nah, we didn't overhaul anything(almost the same squad and trainer since 2006) and we never saw reason to. Getting beaten by Brazil 2-0 in finals is nothing to beat yourself up about, unfortunately most of our team was old at that point, we had to form a new team and this team is still playing, nobody expected that team to win 2006 they were way too young. We expected that team to win 2010 and now 2014.
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Van Gaal is obviously having trouble taking the loss. I forgive him for saying what he said, but it's clear that he's not really looking at the situation rationally. I get that losing a close match is better than losing in penalties, but 7-1 is a historic margin. If the Dutch had lost that badly, I'm not sure Van Gaal would even have a job.
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Van Gaal may be a good coach, but god I hate this man as soon as he opens his face.
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I hope you're not a Bayern fan.
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He's from Hamburg, so I doubt it.
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He means that if you lose 7-1, it's because you played poorly and you deserved it. But you can often lose unfairly in penalties when you have been the better team for the rest of the game.
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Exactly. You can't POSSIBLY lose 7-1 and think "Hmm, if only we can converted that one breakaway or if the ref hadn't blown this call then it could've been different!"
With 7-1, you know you were badly outplayed and outclassed. Hats off to the Germans.
That being said, 4-1 or so would've been a lot nicer ಠ_ಠ
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Just be glad Özil missed and it wasn't 8-0.
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Or a 5-2
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But Netherlands weren't the better team. Also, he can't say penalties is a bad system when they only got through the quarters on penalties.
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The teams were pretty evenly matched though, which still makes it hard to accept that the other team has gone through after penalties. He never said penalties was a bad system... don't know where you got that one from.
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He doesn't say it but the way he seems to be annoyed that they went out on penalties and insinuates that his team hasn't actually been knocked out fairly.
I would say the game was evenly matched, but he keeps implying that Netherlands was better, when they weren't and were probably a bit worse if you really want to be nit picky about it. Also, his team barely scraped through the quarters against Costa Rica and only won on penalties, Netherlands failed to score in both their quarter and semi final games. They can hardly complain that being knocked out on penalties is hard to stomach when the only reason they got so far in the first place was due to penalties.
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Translation: Van Gaal: I am an arrogant twat who loves the sound of my own voice and the attention I get from deliberately controversial opinions
19†
Nothing new here.
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Maybe, but he only holds these press conferences because he's forced to. If it were up to him, he'd almost never talk to the press.
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He's boiling piss already and he's not even started managing United. Excellent.
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We didn't lose the game, we lost on penalties, which is sad
They had 120 minutes to score and win the game. They didn't. That's the moment where they lost the game, because it's not in his hands anymore.
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*240 minutes
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I don't get it.
Mind explaining?
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I think he's saying that in the quarters and the semis they had 240 minutes to score a goal and they didn't.
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oh, right.
thanks.
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Didn't score in the 0-0 draw against Costa Rica that Netherlands won on penalties.
Edit: I see what he means but... no. 120 minutes because the previous game was won...
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It's a bit hard to score when there's 11 players in the penalty box all game long...
-2†
QQ moar
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If their crossing hadn't been so damn awful, they would have had a shot. A third of their crosses sailed 20 yards over everyone, a third were too close to Romero (who did an excellent job to position himself to cut them out, BTW), and a third were so low they were cleared by the first defender at shin-height.
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We didn't lose, it was a draw.
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I agree. Knowing that you never had a chance is much easier than knowing you were one mistake away from avoiding penalties and winning or one penalty miss from winning. Brazil's circumstances were different with being the host, so maybe in their case it would be worse.
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I can't even wrap my head around this logic of how it's "worse". No, it's very clearly not. If the dutch had lost 7-1 it would have been a public humiliation just like the Brazil-match, maybe not of it's caliber since it's not Netherlands home turf but surely still very very bad.
Van Gaal just likes to open his mouth-hole and produce noises with his vocal cords that turn into controversial statements, there is really nothing new about this. I am going to love next season with Wenger/Mourinho/Gaal all in one league.
2
I am talking about long term pain. While the initial embarrassment hurts, the games that hurt the most (for me) were the close games that my teams just couldn't pull out in the end. Lets say Brazil loses 2-2 on penalties. You start playing the game of what if. What if Neymar had played? Would he have scored a goal and won the game before penalties? Would Thiago Silva have prevented one? What if one chance had been taken better? While the 7-1 scoreline you can taken solace in the fact that there wasn't much you could do.
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But then again, the 7-1 will be remembered for a very very long time. I guess I'd rather lose on penalties.
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Are you saying people haven't been asking those questions? Missing Silva was possibly the biggest issue as Luiz is clearly no captain and needs someone to control him.
This will be remembered for much longer than a penalty loss. It will hurt a lot more, and for a lot longer. It's a team game, and the result affects the whole team. It was a total humiliation, and may have ended several players international careers before they really got started.
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I would say that Silva is not 6 goals better than Dante. Having Silva would have helped but not turned the game into a win. Poor performance? Yes. But ending player's international career before that got started? No. That is an overreaction.
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As I said before. He is losing like a bitch.
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As always.
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Highly debatable this is. Ask Brazil.
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"Winning on penalties, however, makes me a genius."
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I think there's a fair amount of Brazilians that would disagree with him there...
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Then aim for the one goal rather than wait it out for penalties.
To be fair, he did bring on Huntelaar instead of Krul in extra time.
Seriously, both team played it safe, but in the end Netherlands were the attacking team for most of the time. They played defensively in the first half because they do it every game.
Why would we be waiting out for penalties? If we wanted penalties we would have subbed krul in. And it's kinda hard to score when a team plays very defensively.
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Thanks for the analysis Sherlock.
Cuz Argentina showed so much attacking power that game? Both teams tried to score, no team ever wants to go for pentalties that is just absurd
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/09/article-2686667-1F85C98B00000578-689_634x412.jpg
If you watched the game you know that was just one screenshot in 120 minutes of playing. Ridiculous that it's used to support the argument that Nederland played that formation other than in that moment.
But...they have a player upfront.
That was probably Van Persie… offside again.
Look people he has a picture! He must be right, 90 minutes 3 to 1 shot on target. Both were defending extremely.
Congrats on the win, but don't pretend you weren't defending as crazy like we were.
I was illustrating the reason why Argentina didn't display much attacking power. I didn't say we were attacking like crazy, it was a very defensive game, a classic WC semifinal I would say.
Half of your post is more gentlemanly than the whining the coach of Holland has displayed after losing. He's making all of Holland look bad. Is this guy the new coach of Man U? Ferguson or any coach with class would say Congratulations to Argentina, you played well, we'll get u next time etc.
I felt like they were really heavy on the defense. Maybe it's because that's what I was looking for and we were doing the same, I don't know, but it was going to be impossible for us to score. We had no reason to take it into overtime since we were going to get pushed, as we were. That was the Dutch's strength and it didn't pay off for them.
Van Gaal hinted himself that the game would go ovetime/penalties before the match.
Yeah don't run a 5-3-2 when you ran a 4-3-3 most of the tournament.
We ran a 5-3-2 most of the tournament.
Yep. That's how you guys beat Spain.
Correct. The 5-3-2 was prepared especially to survive Spain as 4-3-3 would be plan B in case things don't work out.
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Where are you getting this? Seems like it has only been a 3-4-3/4-3-3 up until Argentina.
Most games started 5-3-2 and switched to others sometime in to the second half.
No it was 5-3-2 against Spain, Chile and Argentina for the entire match. All other matches started as 5-3-2 but against Australia, Mexico and Costa Rica we switched to 4-3-3/3-4-3 and once 4-2-4.
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