Source
r/Netrunner•
trithne

Marker into Komainu

Marker:

» The next piece of ice the Runner encounters gains "» End the run." after all its other subroutines for the remainder of this run.

Komainu:

When the Runner encounters Komainu, it gains "» Do 1 net damage." for each card in the Runner's grip for the remainder of this run.

Thinking about the situation where a Marker is above Komainu, my initial thought here is that Marker adds "» End the Run" to the currently empty Komainu, and then Komainu adds its "» Do 1 net damage" subs after that when encountered. Meaning that End the Run will resolve first, dealing no damage if Komainu isn't broken. I'm pretty sure this is right, and makes this combination not-great. Does anyone have an alternative reading of this situation?

Posted Oct 5, 2014, 4:38 AM UTC · edited

316
RS14-2•

Nope, the EtR drops to the end as soon as Komainu gains subroutines.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1170858/lukas-sensei-femme-and-komainu

4
structuremole•

While I'm glad you shared this link because I didn't know about "gains -> XXX after all other subroutines" being a thing that is maintained even after the ability triggers, it's not entirely relevant in this case. The reason is that, unlike Sensei which is a constant ability, Marker is a trigger. Let's compare the wordings:

Sensei:

[Subroutine] For the remainder of this run, each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "[Subroutine] End the run" after all its other subroutines.

Marker:

[Subroutine] The next piece of ice the Runner encounters gains "[Subroutine] End the run." after all its other subroutines for the remainder of this run.

The difference in wording between "each piece of ice encountered" and "the next piece of ice the Runner encounters" is the difference between static and triggered effects.

Luckily! This just makes the scenario easier (I'm sure you know, but just stating for OP): When a player has multiple of their own triggers triggering at once; in this case, Komainu and Marker; they may resolve them in any order they choose. This is the main rule that people should use for trying to understand an ambiguous-seeming situation. However, the Sensei ruling is interesting, because it seems that you could actually resolve the triggers in the unintuitive order and still get the desired effect, mostly because Komainu doesn't make any mention of where the subroutines are gained.

2
Onlyasandwich•

Wouldn't both on encounter effects trigger at the same time, and both are corp, so corp would decide if marker or komainu effect goes first? They would of course choose komainu first.

2
RS14-2•

Take a look at the link I posted. "The Sensei is creating a constant ability that gives each piece of ice an additional subroutine." Likewise, I think it's safe to assume that Marker is creating a constant ability.

Constant abilities are always resolved before anything else. They are resolved before the corp resolves their "on encounter" effects (such as Komainu's gain subroutine effect), and also before the runner resolves their "on encounter" effects (such as Femme's bypass).

1
rupertpupkin9NSFW•

"After all other sub routines" is pretty clear. Komainu is not empty once you encounter it. Like chum or sensei, you resolve the next encountered ice then effects of the previously triggered ice kick in.

0
afishisbornoctgn/stimhack: hargleblarg // Kit for days.•

It is empty when you encounter it. That's why Femme is so good vs Komainu.

The issue then is in what order Marker and Komainu add their subroutines. As I understand it (and I could be wrong), at 3.0, the runner's "on encountered" triggers fire first, then the corp's. That said, I'm pretty sure the corp gets to choose the order, so they could let Komainu trigger before Marker, putting the etr as the last sub.

3
TheyCallMeTheLemon•

No, that's not true at all. With Femme, you bypass. You never encounter. If you had to encounter, you'd have to pay 3 credits when you bypass Tollbooth with Inside Job or Femme, and we both know that doesn't happen.

-7
PostalElf•

Gonna be slightly pedantic here. You have to encounter the ice before you use Femme's ability; that's the trigger condition. The reason why you don't pay the toll though is because you can choose to resolve the bypass before the toll, since both fire on the same trigger. After you bypass the ice, you are no longer encountering the ice, so the effect fizzles.

9
emlun•

To be even more pedantic, "you can choose to resolve the bypass before the toll, since both fire on the same trigger" is only true in one sense. You can choose not to bypass (say, if you want to Crescentus it), but you cannot choose (for whatever reason) to resolve the bypass after the toll - the active player's abilities resolve first, in the order if their choosing, then the other player's in the order of their choosing.

5
XenasisCurrently playing: Leela and Tennin•

You never encounter.

Yeah, you do. There's actually rulings about this related to Kit's ability, for example, if you Inside Job a server as her, the thing you just hopped over gains Code Gate, as you encounter it.

If my understanding is correct, the reason you can Femme a Tollbooth is because Femme also works on encounter, and you can use Femme before Tollbooth activates.

3
trithneOPTwenty one-pointers•

Yeah, looking at Sensei made me start thinking along these lines a bit more - Marker/Sensei puts the 'gain EtR' effect into play - Encounter Komainu - Komainu gains Net Damage subs - Komainu gains EtR. The key phrase being 'Next piece of ice the Runner encounters'

1
bblum•

I don't think it's that clear. Marker's sub could be interpreted as setting up a delayed trigger, "when the runner encounters the next piece of ice, it gains...", in which case the corp chooses how to order the triggers (the good way, obviously). But I think it's more likely the ETR gets added the moment marker's subroutine resolves.

1
[deleted]•

I agree it could be clearer, but it does say "the next ICE the runner encounters", which implies that the Marker trigger fires when the runner encounters the next ICE.

1
afishisbornoctgn/stimhack: hargleblarg // Kit for days.•

Plot twist! Marker only interacts with NEXT ice.

3
[deleted]•

The next NEXT ICE gains the grail subtype.

1
rupertpupkin9NSFW•

We've been reading it Completely wrong this whole time! Lol

1