Follow Up: I few days ago I posted about a Life Insurance Carrier offering a discount to vapers. I spoke to the broker today and got some interesting info...
Here's the link for anyone who hasn't seen it:
When I spoke to the insurance broker I already had an idea of what to expect since it was explained to me in the original thread by u/GODZiGGA and u/Fortinbraz, however I figured I'd get as much info as possible to pass along to ECR.
As I was told in the other thread, Prudential is the only carrier who offers discounts to vapers, since they differentiate between smokeless tobacco and cigarettes. I was classified as "Standard Plus Non-Tobacco" and after nailing down my coverage levels, I was given a rate of $400/year for a 30-year term.
I wanted to know what that rate would be if I weren't a vaper or smoker, so I requested a quote as a non-user (not the official industry term), as well as a quote as a cigarette smoker. Here's how it broke down for me:
Non-User: $280/year
Vaper: $400/year
Smoker: $875/year
While a policy for a vaper is roughly a 42% higher than that of a non-user, that same policy for a smoker is around 118% higher than that of a vaper! I'm sure this is common knowledge to any ECR folks in the insurance industry, but I had no idea, so I thought I'd share my experience.
TL;DR - It's legit. If you're searching for life insurance you may be eligible for a significantly reduced rate though Prudential.
Posted Oct 30, 2014, 4:15 AM UTC
Pardon my ignorance but assuming you told them you were a "non user" but continue to vape anyway and die in a car crash does that mean they wont pay out if they find out you were using an ecig ? ..or maybe only if it contributed to your death?
First of all, you would have to actually quit for them to not find out. You will be required to take a paramedical exam in which you will provide blood, urine, etc. It's basically a physical. Along with other drugs, they screen for nicotine. You may be able to lie to the app, but your blood and urine won't lie. On top of the paramed, they will dig through your medical records. Did you go to the doctor in the last year or two and mention your vaping/smoking? You are now a tobacco user regardless of your current use. Time length since last use before you are eligible for non-tobacco rates will vary by company but it is typically 1-3 years.
Let's say you lie and somehow get away with it up front. Whether a death claim can be deny because you lied will depend on your state and what the contestability period is in that state. For example, if the contestability period is 2 years, you die within that period, and they find out you lied on your app they will not pay the death claim; they will refund the premiums paid instead.
If you die or they find out outside of the contestability period, then they have to pay the claim regardless.
I can't stress enough, every state law is different, so this information may not apply to you. You also shouldn't lie on your life app period. It isn't worth a claim not being paid.
Say you use 0 nic. Could they still be able to check based off the amount of propylene or vegetable glycerin?
Nope since PG is used as a food additive and probably wouldn't have a metabolite they can easily check for.
This is very true, depending on the signing/situs state policies can dramatically vary, especially when it comes to what is covered and not covered under the policy.
Although, with the company I work for, I've never seen any lengthy claim research being performed for something like tobacco (granted, our policies max at $250k, so we're not talking high benefit policies). We're actually pretty lax and don't require any additional paperwork to prove their EOI answers; we usually take them at face value.
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Correct. They look for cotinine in your urine. Cotinine stays in your system much longer than nicotine and it will vary based on the individual person. Typical estimates are 1-2 weeks but I've had clients admit to me after getting caught that they stopped smoking about 3 weeks before their paramed and they tested positive. If you've not used nicotine products for enough time to not test positive for cotinine, you've gotten past the hardest part of nicotine withdrawals (2-3 days) and essentially quit so you might as well keep going.
That is fairly good advice unless there is an important reason why would should inform your doctor.
Yep, that is common. Weight loss (even explained weight loss like in your case) typically needs to be maintained for a year to be considered for a better rate otherwise they will base everything off of your highest weight for the last year. This is because they have statistically determined that if you keep the weight off for a year, you are more likely to maintain it. Weight loss, even if planned/explainable, can also be because of another underlying undiagnosed condition.
The limits may seem arbitrary, but they aren't. Actuaries are very good at what they do and most companies underwrite on a point system. Each condition on the wrong side of the "arbitrary" line deducts points from their score. If you get enough deductions, you are denied coverage. Having cholesterol that is 1 point on the wrong side of a cut off in and of itself is not a big deal. But if you add being overweight, smoking/nicotine use, slightly elevated blood pressure, maybe you like to enjoy an alcoholic beverage occasionally like most of us do, any sort of family history of heart disease/high blood pressure/cholesterol/cancer/thyroid conditions/etc., you are in a riskier line of work, and the underwriter starts to see a ticking time bomb. A lot of times, underwriters will also list the easiest to fix condition that would allow you to get coverage in the future. By citing cholesterol, they are basically saying if everything else stays the same, you just need to lower your cholesterol a little bit and we'll cover you. You can't fix your family history and you've already lost weight so if you maintain it and lower your cholesterol a tiny bit, we can get you coverage.
Obviously I don't know the specifics of your case and this is all speculation, but I can say for a fact that it would be very, very, very rare for some to be outright denied AD&D coverage solely because of your cholesterol being slightly high when they don't even have to pay a claim on a medical related death. There is something else there that is happening.
Either that or you need to find a new agent and reapply because your agent didn't care enough to do their job and fight for an easily issuable case. Underwriters are human and make mistakes. We had a woman who was denied because she gained 30 lbs and lost 30 lbs in the same year and that was concerning to the underwriter on an otherwise healthy woman. A phone call explaining she was pregnant and then gave birth lead to the underwriter facepalming for failing to consider that in the weight gain and loss and we got her issued best class. My best advice would be to find an independent agent that represents multiple companies, make sure you see multiple quotes, and try again. If what you say is true, you will get coverage.
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