Source
r/ketogains•
vanata

how to keto bulk!? [Lifting/Keto Noob]

As a preface to my info, I started keto to help recover from multiple health issues. (primarily adrenal exhaustion). During this health episode I lost a ton of weight and wanted to start adding weight in a healthy way. So far so great, but I wanted to start getting serious about gaining weight back.

126lb -- 5%BF -- 5'11'' -- M -- 21 -- Ketosis for 5 weeks and lifting for 3

Also any advice on preparing/storing food while keeping it as interesting as possible is very welcome; I'm so hungry all the time since I've been working out. I generally go for 6 days then rest on 1 day with a variation of 5 x 5 (5 x 8?) with machines mixed in afterwards. I haven't been getting sore much at all so I just keep going back with that one full day of rest. Thanks in advance.

Posted Dec 30, 2014, 11:21 PM UTC · edited

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anbeav•

What's the specific question?

how to keto bulk

Eat more! At least TDEE + exercise + 250-500

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vanataOP•

so much food! I've been pretty good about making food at home + having leftovers, but man is it a lot! still just adjusting to that part of the lifestyle I suppose. A simple answer is a good one :D Thx

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anbeav•

Remember keto food is calorie dense - reach for the oils, butter, meat, nuts, avocado!

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vanataOP•

Been doing lots of all of those! Working on variety and getting cooking amounts for meals/storage.

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GamlebyenI EVEN LIFT•

Try to drink a bit of your intake if there's too much food. use heavy cream in your coffee and protein shake, coconut oil and butter to make a so called bulletproof coffee in the morning, eat some good brie or other proper cheese

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vanataOP•

I do all of those except for the heavy cream. (and the coffee is replaced with cordyceps)

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grndzro•

Do not overtrain. All that does is waste your Glutamine that you need to build muscle. Short daily moderate workouts to maximize gains.

Spike Glutamine post workout with a supplement.

Get plenty of protein.

Get plenty of rest.

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vanataOP•

what would you say is overtraining? Great suggestion on the glutamine post workout. I forgot to mention even though I'm going 6 days in a row I alternate with "heavy" and "light" days. sometimes I'll push for more weights and other days ill do the basic 5x5 with no machines or increased weight.

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grndzro•

In Keto anything past your current adaptation burns carbs for energy. So a heavy workout will end up burning carbs, and that eats into your glutamine because Keto uses gluconeogenesis to provide necessary blood sugar. This gets better over time though.

The reason to do moderate daily workouts while in Keto is twofold.

A. In Keto your available protein is directly tied to your carb expenditure, and is less than a standard workout diet. A heavy workout ends up being counterproductive since the protein requirement to fuel the exercise and recovery is greater than your tolerance and would result in being kicked out of keto. So lighter full body workouts are much easier to fuel on a daily basis.

B. Taking advantage of the 24 hour muscle building window. When you workout the muscle gain within 24h is the greatest. Building muscle only requires reps to exhaustion for the most part. So fast and intense full body workouts that you can do on a daily basis is superior to targeting specific muscle groups. Sure you kill a muscle and then rest it for a few days for what? 15% greater muscle gain for one day then no progress on rest days?

A lot of people overtrain muscles that are not ready for hypertrophy. Hypertrophy only happens when your muscle size exceeds your muscle sheath and causes it to permanently stretch, allowing more muscle gain. Training hard and causing microtears results in short muscle fibers that tire quickly. It's great for powerlifters who value strength above all else, but it also results in scar tissue build up.

Build up muscles till they are tight and then have a burnout day to stretch the sheath. So it would be something like 4-5 regular/1 burnout/1-2 days off every week or other week once you are ready. For the burnout day take extra protein.

Just like everything take advice with a grain of salt and do research before forming opinions.

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/gluconeogenesis.html

http://vimeo.com/85239552 (Important) This is the big one. Muscle gain only requires maximal stimulation, not muscle tearing.

http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/hit-or-myth-the-truths-and-fallacies-of-high-intensity

http://www.livestrong.com/article/406021-when-do-muscles-grow-after-working-out-with-weights/

Many people miss the science behind muscle building and infer incorrect conclusions based on results. A lot of bro science has been ingrained into the community and passed on as fact. You need to take a look at the science rather than cause and effect to find the truth when many factors are at play.

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HDE0127/M/5'11" | CW 164 | 11.7% BF•

Always such great information. I really dig your scientific approach to learning.
Have you seen any studies that identify/suggest an optimal reps-range? My understanding from the links you shared was that too heavy a weight and you can't get enough reps to fully stimulate the various fibers through the entire range of motion, but too many reps and you don't get a strong stimulation of the muscle. Based on this, I would expect there is a sweet spot or some kind of bell-curve.

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grndzro•

I would think based on HIT it would be somewhere around 60% to exhaustion. That dosent mean failure. Recovery should be 1 day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1reYKpJ0Wk

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vanataOP•

Also I've intuitively been following point B so I think I'm doing a whole lot more right than wrong atm. Thanks again

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vanataOP•

Thanks for all of the good info. That is exactly what I need to learn. I appreciate it greatly.

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Sprtghtly•

Read up on the requirements for electrolytes and supplement your water during your workouts. When I was being treated for adrenal exhaustion, I wound up in the hospital briefly because I became incoherent after a workout. Nobody had any idea what was going on. While at the hospital, I ate a hamburger, and was fine. At the time, it was thought I'd had a "sugar crash." In retrospect, I was drinking a coffee shake similar to bulletproof coffee, but with added protein, something many people at this site do every day, and I was drinking about a liter of water per 1-hr workout. I was on an extremely low fat diet at the time. Nobody ever mentioned electrolytes to me.
I did some reading, and found out that one of the early treatments for adrenal exhaustion was plain table salt (sodium). I started supplementing my water to taste, about 1 tsp table salt/liter with a little cranberry juice to color it. I did that for months as I stabilized. The salt in the water tasted good to me, and eventually I did not care to have it. I never had a recurrent episode. Many months later, and on a whim, I put 1/2 tsp salt in my water bottle, and could not stand it.
That happened a couple of years ago. Since then, I'd dropped the habit of adding salt my water, although I do continue to have a taste for salt in my food. I have been toying with the keto diet, and because I read the comments here about electrolytes, I tried adding a packet of Electro Mix by the makers of Emergen-C to 1/2 liter of water during a workout. I was shocked at how easy that water went down. I will be supplementing my water in the future.

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vanataOP•

Thanks for the info. I definitely have known about the salt addition for adrenal fatigue, but i don't do it regularly anymore. I should start doing that semi regularly again for a while.

The Electro Mix by Emergen-C sounds great.

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alphabasedwatislift•

Check out u/darthluiggi's stickied spreadsheet. Has the macro calc to help you hit your bulking macros.

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vanataOP•

I've used the calc. I'm just resisting tracking macros on a daily basis which I know is silly

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alphabasedwatislift•

After you track your macros on a regular basis, you can usually start eyeballing them.

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vanataOP•

ah that is good to know.

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