Source
r/SSBM•
Empathized

Sheik vs. Spacies | Specific situation: Gimping vertical recovery?

I figured this question was specific enough to ask here without getting people mad; if I'm sheik (let's assume at around 60-70%) and I just threw a very low percent (0-20%) falco or fox off stage with a back throw and they decide to recover straight up from directly below the edge with up-b (for now, let's assume that the spacie doesn't have a double jump), what options do I have? Let's assume that we're not playing on Battlefield, so that the spacie can potentially ride the wall up. Here's what I've been thinking:

  • if they are not far below the edge, they can't sweetspot it with up-b, so: * if they go straight up, I can downsmash, jab, or maybe downtilt * if they angle in and ride the wall, my downsmash won't hit them out of it; I'll trade and get hit, possible leading to a combo for the spacie (this one is the one I need the most help on) * if I know that they're going to go for this option, then I can run off and bair them into the stage as they charge up-b * I could maybe short hop charge needles, and then throw them right over the edge as the spacie comes in? would this cover them riding up the wall? * wavedash back and wait for them to land on stage would work only if I know they're going to ride the wall
  • if they are far enough below the stage that an up-b would never go above the stage * run off, double jump bair works if I hit them on their way up, but would it be safe to go off stage before they start the up-b, and assume they are going to go for it? (I'm thinking probably, because they don't have a double jump) * grab ledge, and if needed drop down and fair
    In general, i'm just curious about this situation, as a lot of the time I find myself just letting spacies get back for free when they're in the position. Tell me what you guys think.

Posted Jan 24, 2015, 7:53 PM UTC

69
Laudandus•

http://www.twitch.tv/pewpewu/v/3719597?t=1h50m44s

Was PRETTY SICK

Weak untechable nair and dair -> other kill move are cool options

6
sergregor•

Holy shit

3
EmpathizedOP•

wow!
my spacing must just be bad because I totally expected you to get hit by the up b straight into you that you downsmashed (i.e. I usually get hit or trade with that)

2
A_Waskawy_Wabit•

Try to time it so that they get hit by the first hit of the dsmash since your legs are invincible meaning that if you space/ time it correctly it's free

1
EmpathizedOP•

I never knew her legs were invincible at the startup. TIL. Gif: http://i.imgur.com/2RIC7.gif

1
A_Waskawy_Wabit•

Yep, lots of d-smashes give leg invincibility (Falco gets it for his entire chargeup and can dodge marth's d-smash)

1
scchabanero•

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBD8au4jQbg&t=47m

Though it doesn't entirely cover wallriding if Kels did try that, using ledge invinsibility with nair is always super good. The fair he used also could've been subbed with a weak bair to prevent a wall tech. These options are definitely better than your first set of bullets since those provide a lot more risk in letting the spacey get back on stage and potentially edgeguard you back. Watch the whole video really

2
HT_F8•

Ledgehop nair with invincibility covers a lot! If it's Falco or you can get it early enough on a Fox that the fire doesn't hit you, falling on their heads with a ledgedrop Bair works as well.

1
gm_jack•

If they go deep enough on certain stages, you can run off, pull yourself under the stage to DJ fair them on their way up and then recover fine.

Aerial needles can reset the situation well to buy you more time.

Getting on the ledge for invincibility to drop and bair etc in the charge up is really good too, but needs smooth movement.

Well spaced dsmash can be teched, but is a reasonable mix up to try to see if they are able to reliably ledge tech.

Falling a nair or weak bair onto a fox often leads to trading, pushing you back to the ledge and them either too far to recover, or at least into a much easier position to cover. Falco has no hitbox on the charge, so just get the reflex to be running off to slap and falco recovering low with UpB.

Every time you miss, consider what could have worked, and try it next time it comes up.

1