How many got debt along with the girl?

Talking with my banker in January, friends etc. Almost all had the same story. Guy was doing well, nothing extravagent, but enough to be happy. Decent nest egg building etc.

Not one single girl (only about 20 from friends and bankers client examples) entered a LTR without debt. School, parting, or general mismanagement.

The guys I hang with are mostly on the ball, and they seemed to have turned it around since sticking for the long haul, but we are all generally worse off than we would have been if single (financially)

Just would like to see if there are some shared experiences, or people with wives that have their shit together in the bank...

For me, her parents were the worst examples of financial intellegence. Used to flip houses in canada for a few years, get a few hundred grand, then go party in mexico for 5 years, blowing it all in a long party. Then repeat. Then they got old, and it got harder and harder to bounce back, and now they are like a lot of older baby boomers I meet, basically stuck financially in CPP, living frugally. I see it happening to my parents as well.

Posted Feb 9, 2015, 6:44 PM UTC

639
alphabeta49Married•

I'm ashamed to admit I'm in the opposite boat. My wife has about $5k in student loans because she worked her ass off. I have over $30k because I didn't work my ass off (and I got a full-tuition scholarship, so I really should have no debt). Her dad taught her the value of a penny, and if I were to delegate our finances to her she could handle as good or better than I am. I haven't done that because I need to get better at it, and I want to be in control of my family's finances. So yeah... Financially I'm more of a burden than she is. That's going to change soon: we're both starting home businesses in the next few months so we can get out of the hole. Once I get rid of my school debt I know my SMV will jump up.

8
NotABibleScholarMARRIED•

This is perfect, why? Because you didnt just hand it over because she's more capable, you are using the challenge to grow. She's your help, you can learn from her. Guys should prick this crap up, this doesn't mean don't ever delegate when she is better, but her being better isn't an excuse for you to be lazy.

3
Dev_onOPLTR•

I was just thinking about persuing comparative advantage, but I'm always too much of a control freak with money to go that route personally

2
alphabeta49Married•

Exactly. Its taken alot of pain to get to this point. And I've made terrible decisions, many of them coming from a BP desire to please her and buy her stuff. One of the hardest things for me is saying "we can't afford that" and not feeling guilty. :P

2
Dev_onOPLTR•

Thats a good story. Nice to see it's just a confirmation bias on my part. depending on how more stories here go

I mean except the part where you are a lazy spendthrift :)

2
alphabeta49Married•

Yeah. There's so many things I regret about undergrad (oneitis, student loans, didn't party hard OR make career moves: waste of time and money). I despise the old me.

The original plan was only for her business (personal training, pays $50/hr), but while we're waiting around for the backyard gym to be finished (I'm doing it all myself), we're struggling paycheck to paycheck because I'm too scared to teach music lessons (also pays $50/hr).

The turning point was about a week ago. I was sick and tired be being short on money. We had to put the food for my daughter's birthday party on a credit card. I told myself that I'm the only one responsible for providing for my family and pulling us out of debt and that I shouldn't be relying on her business. I was even getting push back from her: where before she was excited to train (it was her idea originally), she's been getting more resentful lately that she's being made responsible to keep us afloat. So I'm in the process of contracting with a charter school to get music students.

Time to own my shit.

3
Dev_onOPLTR•

good luck man. I wish my story was like this. Unfortunately, just debt free, couple degrees on account of my service. she came in with 27k in car, and pre relationship cash.

Now we are paycheck to paycheck adjusting to our 4:1 leveraged mortgage (as in 4x annual salary, should be 2-3) I miss the days of drunkenly booking a vacation and not blinking.

The resentment thing sucks though, every time I've ever shown vulnerability, it's the reaction I get too... So long as I can look myself in the mirror, and know it's temporary, I don't mind though.

Odd how you're scared to teach. I've been an instructor at fleet school... it's one of the few rewarding parts of being in the military I've experienced... I can only immagine the same with music. One of the few jobs out there you can still point at work at the end of the day with a sense of accomplishment.

I think it's undervalued, that final product, in helping with your esteem

2
alphabeta49Married•

I haven't heard of that mortgage ratio. I'll have to run some numbers... We got a great deal on our house though, so I think we're good there. Its just the student loans that equal my annual income that's killing us right now...

every time I've ever shown vulnerability, it's the reaction I get too...

This is one of the hardest lessons I've hard to learn, knowing that no matter how much they say "I want us to be a teeeeeeeeeammmmm", I really just need to man up and take care of my family alone. Any extra income she generates (or any extra value she adds to the family in general) will be factored in, but not relied upon.

My fear of teaching comes from a bad teaching experience when I was in high school. Kids flaked on my studio's recitals, it hit my self esteem hard. Probably wasn't even about me, but I was worse than a self-absorbed pussy back then. I mentally know better, and now the push to provide for my family has forced me to psych myself up and go for it. I know that once I get into it I'll experience those rewards you're talking about. Just need to take the plunge.

2
Vzuv•

My wife had no debt when we started dating - her grandfather paid for her to go to college. I had about ~10k of student debts. It wound up being paid off with money I inherited from my Grandmother when she died right around the time I graduated. We were, as such, extremely lucky. We got married after this and had zero debt - and, additionally, we just did a courthouse wedding for $30, and had a big savings to put a down payment on a house.

Our only debt at this point is our mortgage, and I manage our finances like an iron-fisted dictator and prioritize savings, retirement and paying our mortgage off quickly above everything else.

3
thebillywayneMarried•

I acquired around 130K in debt.

3
Chuckit_Married•

Jesus! A mortgage?

2
thebillywayneMarried•

Egyptology programs at Ivy League Universities are a pretty penny. The average length of the program is 10 years. My wife's brilliant and i love her, but, yeah, 130K.

3
KittenkajiraRP WOMAN- LTR•

When I met my current boyfriend, I had ~$5,000 left on a car loan, and that was it. My boyfriend had ~$40,000 in student loans and that was it (he was about to graduate college when I met him). In the four years since then, we've bought a house, I had 5-6 car repairs (about $2,500), and he bought me new hearing aids ($2,500). So we now have a mortgage that's less than renting, my car will be paid off in April, and we each have about $3,000 on credit cards.

I was probably the better person with money when we met, but that's mostly because I'd gotten in debt right after graduating high school and had to dig myself out of it. So I was pretty accustomed to going without things like TV or a comfortable home temperature if necessary to pay down debt. So when we had to make the big purchases that come with buying a house, I was pretty nervous and was watching closely to see how he'd handle it. I would have rather lived more frugally the first year of home ownership, but he'd rather incur some debt and live comfortably.

Now he's definitely surpassed me in watching the spending. At his request, I gave him a copy of the spreadsheet I'd made for tracking my budget and spending. It's been a couple of years since, and now he has several spreadsheets where he tracks his budget, savings, credit card balances, and even gas expenditure. He's even got all the spreadsheets hooked to each other. Way over my head!

I have to bite my tongue when he buys something unnecessary that's a couple of hundred dollars with us currently being in debt. He's learning in his own way, at his own pace.

3
whinemorepleaseMarried- HARD CORE RED•

I have to bite my tongue when he buys something unnecessary that's a couple of hundred dollars with us currently being in debt. He's learning in his own way, at his own pace.

I know that this is pretty much the standard for RPW (one of the reasons I love reading the subreddit), but I love the fact that you don't bark at him like a harpy. Good on you.

3
my_cock_in_barack•

No cc debt, but 190k in debt at 6% before marriage (law school). She couldn't refinance to 2.7% rate without my income, so I cosigned and now we're both on the hook for that debt.

We're not scrounging for cash, and we both have jobs. I see it as something I had to do slow the bleeding.

3
reasonableman1•

What. the. fuck. were. you. thinking?

You have far far far too much trust in a woman.

2
truchisoft•

This is discussed in Bonecrackr's book.

Males have productive surplus of around 80%, that means males can live with 20% of their productivity. Woman have fertiliy surplus. Marriage is the exchange of fertility for the 80% productivity surplus males have.

Thus you will always be worse off if you mate with a woman, and better off if you mate with a male, helps explain why most gays are so rich, imagine having extra 160% a month to save or expend.

3
Dev_onOPLTR•

Hm, havne't heard about that before. thanks for the link

2
ford_contourMarried- MRP MODERATOR•

My wife and I paid off our combined student debts two years into our marriage.

Her debt was less than 5% of the total, because I attended a much more expensive school.

2
wendy-flyRP Wife•

My husband and I are a mixed bag. I had about $15k of student loan debt with a masters degree that I do use and need, but a credit score over 800, and financial knowledge given to me by very savvy parents. Husband had no student loan debt but no degree, 300-ish credit score, and zero financial knowledge that was also a gift from his parents. He is graduating this summer with $40K in student loan debt but in a marketable degree and he will start with a higher salary than I have after 8 years of experience.

It's been good for us both for him control over the finances even though (and maybe because) he isn't making money now- he is getting a four year degree in 2.5 years- but no income. The house is in my name because of the credit score, so that and me having the income could have upset the balance of power. Because he can start at a higher salary he decided it was worth the investment to get done more quickly, start making the money, and then work hard to pay the debt off as quickly as possible. It all makes me nervous, so it is wonderful to have his clear head and good leadership figuring it out.

It will be interesting this summer to see how/if things change when he gets that job and starts bringing in more money than I do.

2
Dev_onOPLTR•

can always hope right?

damn, I guess I shouldn't be complaining about the 27k at home with her 50k salary

2
wendy-flyRP Wife•

I see my husband's schooling as a smart investment. To humble-brag, he said that he never cared about money or career before me and wanting a family with me, and our relationship inspired him to step up. He picked computer programming because he's good at it, it pays well, and he wants to support his family. swoon :) I don't feel any resentment about living extremely frugally and supporting us. He has gotten straight As in school, and is graduating this summer after only being in school for 2.5 years. It's my job to trust his judgement and sometimes I have to work hard at my job, but it's still my job to do.

2
cptspiffy•

My wife had about 20k in student debt when we were dating; to her credit, she had that paid off (without my assistance) before we got married.

2
justgrif•

My wife and I went into our wedding with zero debt and paid cash for that as well as our honeymoon in Switzerland. Bought a house a few months later, have been aggressively decorating, landscaping, fixing things, etc, all for cash.

A year before our wedding last May we were collectively in about $15,000 worth of debt. A year after, and we are currently up by $10,000 and rising quickly. Though we have a nice house in a desirable area and live pretty well, we still operate well beneath our means, are saving scads of money now and are doing better financially than most of our friends. We are on track to retire in good shape with a paid off house. Hopefully that plan stays true.

I married a very sensible, educated woman with modest and practical tastes, so that helps immensely. She managed to graduate from Columbia University with a master's degree and zero debt, if that says anything. But the big thing that helped us together was taking Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace class (which I mentioned in another thread recently). All common sense stuff that you can find online, but the way it was presented just clicked in a way that had not previously.

With couples especially, it is critical to have your money game squared away. It is too big a stressor to not have a meticulous plan in place that results in some level of wealth building. I handle all our financial planning, but meet with my wife at least once a month to discuss our budget and get her input. We focus on the immediate expenses as well as what we need a few months out. The long term stuff is all "set it and forget it".

You gotta do the money thing together, gotta have a mutual vocabulary for communicating about it and stick to your plans.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Fastbac•

Yeah, this crap doesn't end when you're young. My LTR girlfriend and I have been dating six years (not living together, different towns with kids in high school) and we're both in our 50's. Me: I only have a mortgage. She: mortgage, 35k home equity loan maxed out, carrying $14000 on her credit cards. Just took out $24000 loan for her daughters first year of college. WTF? I finally sat her down and said this shits ends or I'm out of here. Bunch of complaining, forcing us to go to her counselor (topic: my lack of commitment!).

I finally got her to realize I was serious. I pulled out the spread sheet and laid out a 9 month plan to kill the credit cards, a three year plan to kill the home equity loan and get her to get her ex to pony up his part for college (she took out the whole parents portion without even asking him to do his part). If she follows my plan she has enough income ($100,000) to cover $10k a year for the college and still put cash away for retirement. Her ex claims he will cover his part but if not she needs to get a court order detailing his payments.

It's weird: she just doesn't seem to make staying solvent any kind of priority at all. Seems like her thoughts are: Money comes into account, I buy what I want. If there isn't enough, I just borrow it. She's not stupid, multiple college degress, whip smart, but seems to have never put Thought 1 on this.

No obvious excessive consumption, either. Driving a 10 year old car, smallish condo, no flying travel, no fancy clothes, no excessive eating out. It's weird. The only obvious extravagence was she was spending $1500 a month on organic food.

She has been following the plan pretty closely. Maybe a month behind after 5 months just due to unaccounted for stuff like we all have. She should have the credit cards gone by summer.

I'll tell you, my kids will not be that way. My daughter just finished college with no debt due to over $100k in scholarships and help from me, my ex and my parents. She saved up in the last year and is right now in Australia for 5 weeks, she paid for most of it waitressing. She went to Chase to get a travel credit card and due to her outstanding credit got one with a $9k limit. The loan guy was shocked when that number came out of the computer. He asked if she could handle this and she told him she'd never had a late payment and paid it off each month. He said he's not sure he'd seen that in a college kid before.

She said she be in cabs with other student when their phone rings and they'd say, oh, it's the collections guys calling again on their third card that is mixed out. She could not believe how stupid her friends are.

I raised her right!

1
Dev_onOPLTR•

I don't know whether to be happy for you or not...

I hope I've gotten to mine early. Only 50k in car and loc debt. Thanks for sharing

1
Fastbac•

Yeah, I know what you mean. I guess if she follows through, then we'll be okay. If not, trouble. Other than this issue she is really great for the most part.

1