Source
r/hearthstone•
Polymerabbit

Naxxramas had bad cards too...

People are going on about how the BRM card reveals have been pretty disappointing so far because "the only bad card in naxx was that gargoyle", but that's simply not the case:

  • Poison Seeds
  • Avenge
  • Anub'ar Ambusher
  • Reincarnate
  • Nerub'ar Weblord
  • Dancing Swords
  • Deathlord
  • Stoneskin Gargoyle
  • Baron Rivendare
  • Wailing Soul
  • Maexxna

That's 11 out of 30 cards that see little play outside of arena or fringe/gimmick decks. The only revealed BRM cards that I think won't see much play are Core Rager, Dragon's Breath, Axe Flinger, Grim Patron, Dragonkin Sorcerer and Rend Blackhand... so 6 out of the 14 that we've seen. Given that they're probably saving the best cards for the end I think BRM is on track to have about the same amount of bad cards as Naxx did.

Posted Mar 25, 2015, 1:40 AM UTC

981
Bobthejoe•

Avenge is not a bad card, and it sees plenty of play.

Also, in arena many of these are pretty decent picks.

85
WeoWeoVi•

I'd say most cards we've seen are at least going to he as good as Avenge, though.

11
PolymerabbitOP•

"Oh no, not another shitty paladin secret..."

That was the reaction it got when it was revealed. In the reveal threads of BRM cards we have 3 mana 2/4s and 4 mana 3/5s with upsides being described as disappointing because they aren't as good as Loatheb or Sludge Belcher.

All I'm trying to do is put things in perspective for the people who've forgotten about the "not overpowered" Naxx cards because they rarely see play.

4†
Hagot•

That was the reaction it got when it was revealed.

And that doesn't matter one whit. Reddit is bad at analysis. Most people, even professionals, are. The simple fact is, Avenge is a staple in any aggro paladin and an excellent card in arena.

11
That_Guy381•

This is incorrect. I have been running a Shockadin that does not use Avenege, and I went from rank 15 to rank 8 in one night. Avenge in itself is not very good. The problem aggro pally faces is how to get immediate damage.

Avenge can't be used for that.

2
cgi_•

K. Yet, nobody even plays Paladin or avenge.

-30
Tentacle_Porn•

nobody even plays Paladin

You wot

28
windwalker13•

do you even Hearthstone bro

4
clonexg•

This joke was true pre-Naxx. Same could be said for mage. They were both 'Arena Classes'.

2
GrinchPaws•

At the time, Paladin needed a much better card than Avenge. I think that's where the animosity towards it came from.

1
Lucaan•

While I agree, I have to point out that Deathlord is played in Fatigue Mage and some Priest lists, both of which I wouldn't call gimmicky.

75
franbreen•

Deathlords and Dancing swords also played in mill decks.

16
Torien0•

As is poison seeds!

7
Jeffy29•

Dancing swords is not a bad card, when meta was much slower in Naxx, I played it in my priest, trades favorably and you can heal it.

1
wasteknotwantknot•

Only disadvantage is that Priests already have so many good 3-drops, although I see where you're coming from.

1
snkifador•

Deathlord has actually become a rather common card in a lot of decks lately. Priest aside from the usual Druid and Mage.

1
PolymerabbitOP•

Yes, but at release it was generally considered a bad card and it was only with GvG that fatigue mage came about. I just think it's fairer to compare the BRM cards with the Naxx cards as they were viewed at release than how they are now post-GvG and undertaker nerfs.

0†
Mr-Texan•

Actually at release it was considered a great card, afterwards it got considered a bad card because of the possible tempo swings that it can cause by giving them their bomb/game-winning card for free.

26
reddittarded•

You're wrong. Deathlord was constantly used against the zoo and huntard meta during release.

6
PolymerabbitOP•

It was used a bit in priest for a while, but in the undertaker variants it ended up being dropped for harvest golem as it was more consistent. Control priest had great matchups against zoo/hunter anyway and didn't need such a high variance card.

6
Lucaan•

That is a good point.

2
hyugafan•

reincarnate

You take that back! I'll have you know i reincarnated a sneeds once!

56
don_leno•

Those first couple weeks after Naxx playing Rivendare/Reincarnate shaman were good fun. Horribly inconsistent, but winning felt like cheating sometimes. In a good way.

11
wouaouw•

Problem is you either lose ridiculously, or you make such an OP combo that the opponent concedes instantly

18
Monado_Boy•

KT->Reincarnate is my favourite!

3
Jeffy29•

I don't know what you guys are even talking about, deathrattle shaman was very viable and you could have easily get wombo combo with Leeroy. I still see some people play modified version of it.

2
wouaouw•

was

1
quaye12•

I got to 2 stars off legend with my own death rattle shaman deck. It didn't contain reincarnate though and was based around undertaker synergy with double bloodlust. This was in the preleroy nerf hunter meta too! That deck featured baron rivendale but I may have cut it later I can't remember.

0
Zanadar•

Honestly I think I'd argue in favor of Avenge being a good card on it's own. It's the rest of the paladin secrets that are the problem. Part of the power of secrets is not knowing what they are. Does that mage have a mirror entity up or a counterspell? You probably wont be able to check for both this turn and if you pick wrong, you might be screwed. Is that a freezing trap or an explosive? If you lose a big minion checking, you might get overrun. Paladins though? 1 good secret. It's never a surprise, which is what takes away so much of it's power and makes it significantly easier to play around. But again, it's not the avenge itself that's bad, it's how poorly the rest of the class cards are designed to support it.

17
The_Best_Pesto•

Also just the fact that it's a 1 mana cost spell. 1 mana cost spells just don't tend to do enough to justify being put in a deck.

6
Delliott90•

no one suspects GET DOWN

1
Jahkral•

Redemption and repentance are actually really good cards. Its a shame nobody runs them. Having them pop out of a scientist can be a huge deal.

6
PiFbg•

I was playing against a mage. He got King Krush from unstable portal and had lethal with it. He attacks my face, but little did he know a wild "GET DOWN" popped outta nowhere. I won on the next turn! #never4get

2
Thunderkleize•

a wild

Please never do this again.

3
Revenous•

More than half of the cards you listed aren't gargoyle-bad.

That said, it makes sense for blizzard to reveal the more shitty cards first. The closer we get to release, the better the cards will get I imagine.

13
Prince_Ivor•

Almost none of the BRM cards revealed are gargoyle-bad either, so the point stands.

18
binwinbronzebottom•

Wailing Soul is a high value card played in the right deck, some guy recently posted a silence druid deck that made it to legend and ran two of them. Situational cards just naturally seem really bad at first glance, but they eventually find their niche decks.

10
pumpkinbot•

Dem Ancient Watchers doe.

1
NoUploadsEver•

Of those only stoneskin and Maexxna were bad. I've seen all the others in good high level decks (and I've seen them more frequently than i've seen freeze mage which is considered a competitive deck.) I'd even go as far to say that baron rivendare and avenge are above average cards.

9
jaynay1•

All of those cards can be used, but at face value they're not better than what we've had revealed from BRM so far.

But OP didn't even list Feugen and Stalagg so...

11
PolymerabbitOP•

It's hard to call Feugen a bad card given his stat distribution. He really just suffers from the same problem as Cairne in that he can't kill a Loatheb or Sludge belcher.

2
p0m•

It's hard to call Feugen a bad card given his stat distribution.

*example of why its stat distribution is bad.*

Sooooo... it's bad?

-6
Jahkral•

No, it just can't kill the current meta 5 drops. That doesn't mean its a bad card.

8
GravDragoon•

Honestly, Anub'ar Ambusher is a pretty good card overall. I ran it in a more minion based oil-rogue deck for a while and it got me good results most of the time. It's all about manipulating the deathrattle effect as much as you can. Synergizes extremely well in a deck where most minions have strong battlecries (Healbot, Disguised Toast, etc.) or even charge. If you drop it on an empty board, the deathrattle doesn't mean a thing, and you can even trade into minions on your turn to pop it at a beneficial time. All in all, just cause it's not a meta card doesn't mean it's not bad. Fits pretty well in certain rogue archetypes (more minion heavy midrange/buff combo), and it's generally amazing in arena.

5
xxxcancer_•

Poison Seeds

Good for mill druid ( PS + Starfall combo)

Avenge

Pretty good in rush paladin, still used

Anub'ar Ambusher

Garbage

Reincarnate

Gimmicky (but shamans in general is pretty shit atm, not a terrible card)

Dancing Swords

Mill card, its fairly decent

Deathlord

Pretty OP in arena, and still used in some ladder decks

Stoneskin Gargoyle

garbage

Baron Rivendare

gimmick

Wailing Soul

Gimmick/Anti freeze mage

Maexxna

Horrible card, probably the worst in the expansion

3
Bumperpegasus•

Deathlord OP in arena?

Oh you

1
TentativeCue•

Axe flinger and grim patron will be mvp in rage warrior, just you wait.

2
Bumperpegasus•

Maaaybe grim patron. But I can't see axe flinger fitting in any kind of deck

1
DWillows•

half of those are decent-good cards.

avenge is the best paladin secret imo, almost always gives good value, unless they have AOE that can wipe the board.

reincarnate is good with high health taunts or deathrattles. sylvanus, earth elemental, something big like ysera if you have a KT out is kinda ridiculous.

i use deathlord to good effect in my nax priest deck. it's extremely effective against all the smalls that are used now a days. though mech mage still breaks through it.

i've lost so many games to baron rivendare in deathrattle decks. if they have a big deathrattle like sneeds or sylvanus, and then play rivendare if it lives, it's basically GG.

wailing soul, also great in deathrattle decks. ancient watcher, deathlord, dancing swords, the beast (should you play it for some reason) just make sure not to silence your belcher...

2
machdoch•

pls take deathlord of that list, its a great card.

2
Kwala1•

I wouldn't consider reincarnate bad in kt shaman

1†
PolymerabbitOP•

That's pretty much my point. I'm sure that a lot of these "bad" BRM cards will find homes in niche decks and we'll see posts on the front page from people that manage to get to legend with them, just like people did with Reincarnate, Wailing Soul, Dancing Swords and Deathlord.

5
JotWorksMedia•

A very good point!

1
newprofile15•

Don't doubt Deathlord!

But yea, there are a lot of bad cards in Naxx.

1
drpepper7557•

Poison seeds, reincarnate, Rivendare, avenge, and deathlord are not bad cards by design. All of these have seen play in meta decks at one point or another. At release, even if people thought they might not work now, these types of cards will always have to be considered.

With the exception of the hungry dragon and lava shock, the BRM cards have been very tame. Plus, no one was complaining about Naxx or GvG being boring, but people are now, so clearly something is different.

1
lucien15937•

Why does everyone hate Maexxna...? I've used her in Constructed and found her quite useful. (Granted I don't use her anymore, but I don't see how she's second only to Gargoyle in worst Naxx cards)

1
Portal2Reference•

She's basically strictly worse than Boulderfist Ogre. 6 attack will kill just about anything, and also does more damage to the face.

2
Jahkral•

Mostly because at 2 damage she can be stolen for free by a cabal shadow priest, a very commonly run priest six drop.

1
Ereath•

Well, no one is running priest at the moment, so that isn't really a huge issue in the card - as u/Portal2Reference said, it's basically just a worse boulderfist ogre, which is too slow anyways.

2
Jahkral•

Hi Ereath :P

I disagree that its a worst boulderfist ogre, its a better one in terms of minion trading, which is why you would draft it. I think priest is literally the entire reason the card has never seen use. Remember that priest was a top 3 class after naxx due to how strong it was versus midrange hunter and zoo.

1
MechaSixVII•

Reincarnate is pretty good

1
jummyjim•

It's not that the new cards revealed so far are bad... It's that there's an absence of good cards

1
wolf_redrum•

I totally forgot about Stoneskin Gargoyle. LOL. But wailing soul druid is pretty alright.

1