qxc's post about rethinking ladder (from teamliquid). Good ideas if Blizzard is listening
teamliquid.net/blogs/486347-re-thinking-starc...
teamliquid.netPosted May 28, 2015, 1:15 PM UTC
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teamliquid.netThis is a pretty fantastic post by Qxc. I'd like to see Blizzard go one further though, and implement other types of milestones for players to work towards.
Imagine a reward if you managed to keep your time supply capped under your overall average for 5 consequent ladder games, or when you win in your worst match-up 3 times in a row.
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What kind of reward would you get in those cases? Would it happen every time, or would it just be one time achievables? I don't know if those would motivate me or not. There are already a good amount of achievements based on ladder play, so i'm not sure adding more would really change anything. The current ones already do a poor job of motivating me to get them.
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Could make them daily quests which difficulty changes based on your league (and division?).
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But again, daily quest, with what reward? Hearthstone gives you gold, which lets you buy more packs. SC2 has no store though, and any ideas for possible store implementation is usually ideas about customizable skins and sound packs, an idea that seems a bit lacking to me.
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Could give you bonus pool?
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why the fuck do you need a reward for every little shit. if you win three times in your worst matchup, that is your reward. you improved. congrats.
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well for most of us that are still playing SC2, no we don't need it. But for the longevity of the game there needs to be more of a 'carrot' to keep new players the influx of people who play singleplayer and then leave. Personally, i don't care if they don't ever play ladder if there was a vibrant custom game scene like broodwar but small incentives to help people embrace it is helps.
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you improved. congrats.
People want the game to tell them that. That's what this entire discussion is about.
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I don't think it's a particularly good post because I've seen it written elsewhere, the ideas aren't new by any means. But they have the merit of being absolutely right. Particularly the GM thing, it's ridiculous that there aren't demotions.
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I was watching a stream last night of a current GM player with mid to low diamond mmr... like getting matched with 15x plat 1x diamond players and losing due to getting outplayed over and over.
Demotions definitely need to exist, IMO for every league
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To be honest,probably boosted
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that's the point. I'm mid GM (between rank 70 and 110) and on bad days when I start losing streaks I go from playing mid GM players, to high master players and then to low GM players. I think demotions should be kind of what challenger league looks like on League, it refreshes itself and bottom part is demoted, top masters/dia I promoted.
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I hope Blizzard sees his post. Someone summon u/psione.
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I don't think the cut off point for flat ranking without bonus pool should start in grand masters, I think it should start in masters. Lots of masters players are still very competitive and the majority of them aren't casual anymore. By making the transition to a flat mmr system from diamond to masters you make the transition from masters to grandmasters a lot easier. Suddenly if you drop out of the top 200, you are ranked 205 and you know where you stand.
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This is all very true what qxc's saying. I can play Hearthstone for 2 hours and I'll be promoted twice, then demoted twice and promoted once again. This really makes you feel like wins and losses matter and is overall more fun. There's no reason why a ladder system like this shouldn't be implemented in Starcraft 2 unless Blizzard is just giving up on the game.
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I've really wanted sub-divisions within the leagues for a while now. That way you can 100% say you are Diamond 1 and that has meaning. Within the Diamond and Master league there is a wide variety of skill levels and having these enormous buckets to put all them in is a disservice to the leagues and really makes it difficult to gauge incremental increases in skills.
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I really^really^really^really hope Blizzard will finally fix Grandmaster league. It is impossible to defend the current system.
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I've though for such a long time that LoL's system would be so much better for sc2 than sc2's current one. the sub division give many more goals and milestones, ones you can actually achieve in a short period of time. going from gold to Plat can take a ton of time feeling like a distant goal. Sub divisions solve this immediately. the other thing is promotion series (which is the dumbest thing ever in LoL) would actually work in Sc2. something I lament a lot is unless I play in an outside tournament around my skill level I never have an incentive to play my absolute best, or use a build I know really well and is really strong. since the ladder currently is exclusively about getting better, spamming 1 build is not a good move. on the other hand have a promo would create that presume tournament feel to the ladder with you get there
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That's a very big if.
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League of Legends built on Starcraft's league system by building divisions within each league. This would be the equivalent of every league except gm being split into 5 smaller leagues, bronze I-V, silver I-V and so forth. This creates more incremental goals and helps the 'carrot' effect.... The issue right now is that there are not enough incremental goals and the jump from one league to another is too large.
I disagree with qxc here. Inside of each division (and subsequently - league), you can be promoted within subleagues which changes your current medallion.
qxc's argument, though, is still valid even if it's wrong. The issue is not about subleagues (there already are those), but the issue is that reaching a new subleague doesn't receive enough recognition or reward for players, so it feels like it doesn't exist. So the problem isn't enough subleagues, as there are already 7 leagues * 4 (?) subleagues = 28 total leagues, but the differentiation between these subleagues is not significant enough to brag to other players like LoL's system.
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those "sub-leagues" (I'm assuming you mean top 100/50/25/8?) are only based on points and not MMR though, which makes them basically useless.
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They could just make more gem or metal themed leagues (e.g. Jade, Emerald, Palladium, Rhodium). That would accomplish the same thing as the LoL sub-leagues while also providing more of a feeling of accomplishment.
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I'd like to see a redesign of ladder for sure. Qxc has some good ideas here.
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Blizzard has said they are reworking the ladder. My guess is they essentially copy/paste the way the heroes ladder works.
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That would be terrible. The heroes ladder is utter shit and is more ambiguous than what we have now. People want more clarity and details, not coddling and mystery.
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Personally I would like to see global/server ranking and see it improve as I actually improve. Instead of being held back, or held in arbitrary leagues that I may or may not actually deserve to be in.
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How does that work?
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There's no leagues just 50 ranks numbered 1-50. You play and rank up through those 50 ranks similar to the way sc2 works now just more ranks.
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Leagues or ranks ... whatever. We want more of that, and promotion-BO3s.
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I would like to see both leagues and "divisions." Players could actually improve and hopefully get promoted but anyone could improve there "division" just by playing more.
Division D players play 3 games a season, Division C players play 1 game a week, Division B players are playing 1 every 3 days, and Division A players are playing every day.
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Being able to be booted from GM is a good idea. Like in tennis, the top rankings are updated weekly, its just just the players that did well in the first tournament of the year.
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Every single word is true.
Most importent: more milestones/more leagues. And promotion BO3s.
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i wouldnt mind seeing blizzard implement the ideas that QXC suggested, however i dont think people would play this game more just to achieve the rank of Gold5. Most people play games because they're fun, first & foremost. So making this game enjoyable & most importantly approachable, should be the priority. Plenty of posts have been written about ways to improve the SC2 experience, & this article once again ad's more. Sadly it all ad's up to nothing, although i have great expectations for SC3 when it comes out. 2020 cant get here quick enough
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ITT high-school and college kids who think they understand game design
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if Blizzard is listening
hahaha
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Can blizzard just hire him already?
I like qxc as much if not more than the next guy but his answer for everything was always "more clickable skills!" then LotV added it and everyone was up in arms
not every idea is a good one and through further play and actually seeing how additional click spells work, they may not be the right direction for starcraft. There's already so much to do and adding even more things may be too overwhelming for many.
Some ability in some units are good. But they need to stand out and also still require micro to be better than no micro.
Blink is the best example, Prismatic alignment is probably the worst. Alignment is purely a decition you have to make.
Other abilities that deserves a mention for being good is siege mode.
Spells and energy based units is still the biggest culprit i feel. More guns and teeth, less magic the gathering.
Yep, I remember 2 years ago when he suggested that Hardened Shield should be an activeable ability. Everyone was like "Wow this is awesome, QXC knows what's" up. The general public simply becomes way too biased when it comes from famous and wellliked people.
It's not even about there being much to do, but more that "press-a-button" abilities are simply boring. Micro in Sc2 should be related to how you move your units around. Abilities should reward players for moving their units around (as Psy Storm) but it shouldn't be a goal in it self to encourage more a-move + press ability buttons.
Do you remember his article about how creep should cost money, infested terran should cost money, turrets should cost money and what not? Please no.
Turrets do cost money.
I meant ravens' autoturrets. Basically everything "free". He also had a nerf for broodlings iirc.
To be fair that was quite a while ago, and I think it's fair to say that QXC has matured quite a bit since then.
qxc may be wrong or right on his opinions, but you cannot deny three things about him:
I don't know that many people that has all these qualities, not even at Blizzard. So I think his opinions are always worth the listening.
♥ qxc