Brooklyn Man Robbed at Gunpoint for $1,100 in Bitcoin, Police Say
dnainfo.com/new-york/20150605/crown-heights/b...
dnainfo.comPosted Jun 5, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC
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dnainfo.comI blame u/BenLawsky
attempting to regulate p2p sales will keep this in the back-allys like drugs and will only make this worse.
*edit thanks, updated
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The WAR ON DRUGS BITCOIN
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Non-violent activity? Check.
Money to be made in enforcement and incarceration? Check.
Curtailing personal freedom? Check.
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The government waging a war on math would be the best thing for math education in this country EVER.
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Not if the government controls all the schools.
Which they do.
DARE to resist treasonous rogue mathematics!
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[deleted]
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dumbest thing i have read so far today
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why are so few people/places buying/selling btc?
because its illegal to do so without licenses.
Why is it so dangerous buying drugs?
because its illegal to do so.
4†
jon snow? is that you?
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Why would people downvote you for this? It is obviously the case. Most people are idiots when it comes to all this government shit we have no other choice but to take.
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lol @ journalists. They transferred the bitcoin into his bank account did they? I'm sure the guy that got mugged could only wish that he transferred something into his real bank account so the police could nab him... In this context the author is clearly confused. The funny part though is I bet the thief is dumb enough to send it straight to a service that could be used to identify them, let's take a look at walletexplorer :)
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I guess the concept of actually owning your own account is too hard for the journalist to grasp.
Also calls them "virtual thieves". lol
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nothing virtual about a gun in the ribs lol
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😂
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In light of "be your own bank" the journalist is right.
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Where did they say that?
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There's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Exactly.
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I have a question about tracking something like this, using something like walletexplorer these coins can be followed pretty easily, right?
If that is the case is there someone who might want to get involved to help the NYPD track this a bit, I can only see something like that being a boon for the community.
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Just post the address here...people will help
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This is why I carry a gun to every Craigslist transaction I go to. This exact reason!!! I don't care if you're selling xbones or motorcycles you need to do it in a crowded space. A coffee shop or the parking lot outside of a police station. Places with security cameras.
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So someone pulls a gun on you at your meeting. How exactly is your gun going to help you out of that situation before they can shoot you? Or do you just like keep it in your hand trained on them during the whole transaction?
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If the gun was already out pointed at me I would most likely comply. No sense in getting shot making a sudden move. You would have to guage the situation. Does this person really want to shoot you? Read their body language. Do they look crazy or desperate? On the off chance they do start shooting... how could I position myself to best find cover and avoid vital organs. Are there cover situations and places to run to? Where is the quickest exit.
The whole idea of carrying a gun is to use it as a last resort or when your life is threatened. If the guy has the upper-hand already there isn't much you can do but try to talk him down or seek cover at an opportune moment. I suppose you could go for it while reaching for your wallet or something and seeking cover. This isn't a movie you should avoid conflict at all times and should attempt to escape harm in any way.
It's hard to say what I would do because every situation is different. Every setting is different and the skill level of the threat could vary immensely. I just have to rely and hope that my training and tactics in handling a situation like that are better than the assailant.
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In some states, you can't wait till they turn around then pull out your gun and the stand your ground law will cover you.
I while back in Texas some guys radio was stolen out of his truck, he caught the thief right as he was running off, chased him down after about 1/4 of a mile, shanked him, took his radio back, and left the guy to die.
Stand your ground covered his ass even though he didn't call the police.(the last part amazed me)
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Does this person really want to shoot you? Read their body language. Do they look crazy or desperate?
I don't think r/bitcoin denizens are remotely qualified to assess that.
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I just can't come up with a situation where you carrying a gun in a holster improves your situation in a close quarters stick up type situation. You won't have the speed to get the gun and now the guys also double on edge so any movement innocent or not you make is likely to make him think you're going for the gun.
I'm not opposed to guns either I use to shoot regularly I just don't see it ever helping here and more often then not making a bad situation worse.
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Better to have it if you need it, than need it and not have it. It really depends on the situation.
If you carry it in a open holster, then it's a glaring statement that you intend to defend yourself. The chance that they will choose an easier target, before anything bad happens, increases.
If you carry it concealed, then it's infinitely less of a deterrent and will only become an effective means to make him rethink his position AFTER he shows you his. At that point, it can go one of two ways, 1) he starts shooting and you are able to return fire (an option any logical and free individual would chose to have as an option), or 2) he backs down to live another day and perhaps finds a weaker victim.
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At that point, it can go one of two ways, 1) he starts shooting and you are able to return fire (an option any logical and free individual would chose to have as an option), or 2) he backs down
Lol right there is no third way, he shots and manes or kills you could never happen to someone with a gun.
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If its your time to go, there is nothing further you can do. Congratulations, you found an outcome with no mitigation.
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The thing is you're in close range so if you go for the gun and he starts shooting how likely are you to get it from your holster, safety off, and aimed before you're dead anyhow? I use to shoot pins with a couple speed shooters at a range years ago and even they wouldn't be able to beat an already pointed gun.
I really can't think of any situation where it comes in handy if you're doing a close quarters deal like that.
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how likely are you to get it from your holster
There are lots of things you can do to gain an advantage. Each one depends on the circumstances. Maybe its shouting real loud as you draw. Maybe I just grab the slide or cylinder so it can't fire and wrestle him for it (your scenario was up close). Even a sweep with your hand to get the muzzle off you might be enough to draw in time. Or lock his up like I described so it can't shoot while I'm drawing mine. I don't know. But I'll take my chances and my surviving into my own hands, not leave it in his.
safety off
I carry a combat handgun. It doesn't have a safety. Pull it out, shoot. There are safety features that prevent the firearm from misfiring if dropped etc.
and aimed before
There is no aiming at close range. It's all center of mass. It's very easy to learn (but it does require practice), just like closing your eyes and being able to touch your nose. It's a learned muscle movement.
you're dead anyhow
I'm betting that I train more than an attacker does, and consider the scenarios much more in my head than an attacker does. Not having to think about it when it happens give you an extreme advantage. In high stress situations, trained people often don't remember reacting at all. Their brain just does what they were trained to do.
And ultimately, I choose the option that grants me, at minimum take him with me, or give him something to remember me forever.
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concealed, then it's infinitely less of a deterrent and will only become an effective means to make him rethink his position AFTER he shows you his. At that point, it can go one of two ways, 1) he starts shooting and you are able to return fire (an option any logical and free individua
Rambo, stop watching those hero movies.
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How about you argue a reasonable point instead of jizzing ad hominems.
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So someone pulls a gun on you at your meeting. How exactly is your gun going to help you out of that situation before they can shoot you? Or do you just like keep it in your hand trained on them during the whole transaction?
The point is to comply when being robbed to hand over your wallet or bitcoin to the thief, then pull your gun out to shoot them down as they take off with your stolen item or money. After shooting them you recover your stolen item, take their gun and continue on your way. You now have your stolen property back, a dead culprit and now a new gun for free.
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This makes you more likely to get shot not less
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not if it's concealed
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You're weird.
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rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. IMHO I don't think it's weird at all.
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The virtual thieves then stole the victim’s cell phone and fled, police said.
lol
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So wait, the thieves weren't really real (virtual thieves)?
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Confirmed. We live in the Matrix.
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I took the red pill
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So they have the address it was deposited to, correct?
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It was deposited to their 'bank account' too. Hmm..wonder what bank that was?
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Neo and Bee
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Be careful out there bitbros. There will never be a shortage of violent pieces of shit out there. Stay frosty!
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It didn't go down too well for frosty ;-)
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Where can I get one of these bitcoin bank accounts?
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The guy met somewhere random and got inside the car of the buyer? Damn. That sucks he got robbed, but are you kidding me? You go get in a car with someone you never met off craigslist? Especially when doing a financial transaction. Have a little brains.
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No, it wasn't his bank account.
The robber placed the bitcoin into a sack with a $ on it and tip-toed away tweaking his handlebar mustache.
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I am the man who was robbed in the story (throwaway account for obvious reasons).
Some commenters were asking about tracking the coins - here is the transaction if you are interested:
https://blockchain.info/tx/482d3bc93575fdb57b2fb8d4d3ee82b95a29640a8fd4ec0a8002958858be4294
The above transaction is for exactly $1000, which the man initially demanded. After I transferred that amount, the man demanded more, so I emptied the rest of my wallet (another $83 or so), into his.
https://blockchain.info/tx/60208bddcdc8b37f826f8f5b834cac2bd3f7157e34432a2fdada2007fde13f05
If you look at the public key, most of the coins were transferred out about an hour after the incident. The remaining $8-9 were transferred out only yesterday, June 6.
He was using a Blockchain wallet, which would have made tracking his activity easier if he was stupid enough to keep using it. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he used it again after emptying it.
I know getting into the car with the man was a stupid thing to do. I learned that the hard way and am thankful that I wasn't physically harmed. I also hope this incident serves as warning to others to avoid doing the same.
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I'm glad to hear you weren't injured. What a terrifying ordeal it must have been with a million thoughts going through your head throughout it all. Hopefully all is not lost and there may be some way of tracking them down and getting restitution.
Good luck with the investigation and please keep us posted!
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Thank you :)
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try to double spend it quickly after?
is there some sort of NLOCKTIMEVERIFY type stuff that always gets mentioned? where my tx could be locked for 15 mins or something in OTC tx's?
i'm pretty sure the muggers didn't stick around to wait for confirmations, they got the tx and rolled out.
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But they took the phone too, further complicating things.
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I think a transaction with a NLOCKTIMEVERIFY sometime in the future will not be broadcast through the network at all. I think such a transaction will only be considered valid by a bitcoin node once the locktime is passed. Correct me if I am wrong...
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One could secretly add 0 fees, and hope it doesn't get into a block anytime soon. Then, racing home, do a doublespend with relatively high fees. Would that new transaction be relayed by nodes then? Also, obviously you need to have a backup for this. We all have backups of our (phone) wallets, right?
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I wonder if this would be considered "good cause" for obtaining a concealed weapon permit in California?
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Just save up your coin and move to a free state bro.
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it's the reason why I obtained a CCW. I sell a ton of stuff on Craigslist and every transaction has gone smoothly. I haven't had to use my gun and I hope I never have to.
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If you sit down in the back seat of a car and there's a gun pointed in your face, having a gun on your ankle probably won't help you. Could make things worse.
Not saying you shouldn't have a CCW, but it won't prevent this type of thing in most cases IMO.
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I don't carry on my ankle it's on my hip, and yes this scenario would be different. I wouldn't put myself in that situation though because any transaction involving cash or bitcoin transactions would be done in a public area and under surveillance(coffee shop or outside of a police station). The point being don't be stupid and follow someone to their car to get cash. Either they bring it with them or walk away. I have been selling bitcoin for a while on Craigslist and localbitcoins.
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Straw man argument.
You can come up with infinite scenarios where a CCW wouldn't protect you.
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What am I arguing?
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California issues by County. In many counties just being a US citizen is "good cause" to be issued a CCW.
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This is why you trade bitcoin in a public location, people!
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pretending any kind of even modest transactions are safe to do p2p like this is a pipe dream.
in public, surrounded by people, in broad daylight. people get robbed all the time.
Open air markets that deal in nothing but cash is not safe even in NYC. much less overseas.
Anyone pretending this is any kinda of scalable solution to bitcoin has never lived in the real world.
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Preferably somewhere indoors or where there are lots of witnesses.
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This is why I'd like to consider, a kill switch on funds... Ie funds transferred from special addresses contain a 'locked until block' approach so a transaction sent to another address can only be spent say after 12 blocks EXCEPT during that 12 blocks a new transaction can also be issued by the original owner destroying the coins from existence.
Now even though whoever was robbed has lost the money, the thief doesnt have the money either. Such an approach would remove the incentive to steal in the first place.
What are the serious flaws in this approach?
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Why would I buy something the seller could safely destroy remotely up to an hour or two after I bought it just to fuck with me? Say I haggle over the price but this pisses them off. Once they get home they could destroy my coins as a fuck you after letting the anger brew in them for an hour or two and I have nothing I can do about it.
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Good point, perhaps there should be a cost to the originator for destroying the coins too to prevent arbitrary malicious acts.
That said you highlight another issue which is people could be blackmailed up to the difference between the transfer amount and cost of destruction.
Without reputation it seems tricky to solve this one.
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[deleted]
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But if it did confirm like a usual transaction only that to spend it miners are aware it requires (x) confirmations before it's spendable like a coinbase transaction... They'd only know when they went to spend it. Guessing this can't be easily retro fitted to Bitcoin anyhow but will interesting to know the flaws from a design perspective
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Title: Security
Title-text: Actual actual reality: nobody cares about his secrets. (Also, I would be hard-pressed to find that wrench for $5.)
Stats: This comic has been referenced 584 times, representing 0.8799% of referenced xkcds.
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None. you can do that with BTC right now. It's called nlocktime. Make a locktimed tx 12 hours to an address you control, then store the private key of the input address somewhere else. Those coins can be technically spent (but not broadcasted), but that tx won't confirm until the locktime allows it to be confirmed. You can simply make a new tx double-spending any of the locktimed tx's inputs to get funds back before the timelocked tx is confirmed.
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Just saw this headline on Drudge. They say any news is good news!
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[deleted]
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Selling something on craigslist? Better meet on a street corner and get into a random strangers car when asked to.
Bitcoin doesnt fix the human condition people lets get past that fairytale.
The Internet was once a fairy tale.
The Internet was built by porn.
Bitcoin will also be built by porn. Just imagine the implications, lol....
All it takes is this phrase: "Sorry, I'd rather my identity not get leaked. Bitcoin only."