r/DrugNerds•
phacid

Question about combining a full agonist with a partial agonist.

From what I know when you combine a full agonist like the cannabinoid 5F-PB-22 with a partial agonist like THC, the partial agonist (THC) would have a net antagonistic effect, in other words reducing the potency of the full agonist (5F-PB-22). Does this mean that combining these two will get you less high than if you were smoking 5F-PB-22 alone? Is this also true if you are combining for example LSD (partial agonist) and 25i-NBOMe (full agonist)? Any help would be appreciated.

Posted Jun 12, 2015, 10:41 PM UTC

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[deleted]•

Really, it depends on the binding efficacy if the partial agonist will displace the full agonist. See buprenophine and heroin.

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lysergamide060•

Difficult to say. Most people will tell you that a partial agonist will act as an antagonist in the presence of a full agonist and that is the answer that would probably correct on an exam. However, I think the whole thing might be complicated with some receptors, especially g protein coupled receptors. LSD might be a partial agonist of 5-HT-2A relative to 25iNBOMe, but this does not mean necessarily that it will produce a less intense psychological effect. This is because G protein coupled receptors exhibit some pretty insane signaling bias. LSD might have a lower binding affinity or is not able to activate the receptor as efficiently , but may induce a confomer in the receptor that has a very high affinity for dimerization or favors the activation of a downstream effector that greaty magnifys the signal relative to what 25i can do. Signaling bias is the reason why all the drugs in tihkal and pihkal produced a huge spectrum of effects and it greatly complicates the whole idea of what a partial agonist is and really messes up rational drug design. We are trying to science out what is going on with drugs, but the mechanisms are so over the top complicated that sometimes it just feels like a guessing game more than anything

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phacidOP•

Ok thank you, this is the answer I was looking for, but do you know if it's also this complicated with the cannabinoid receptors? Or can I assume that THC most likely has a antagonistic effect to a full agonist?

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lysergamide060•

People are really looking at this in many g protein coupled receptors like cannabinoid receptors. If you are into the literature, here is a great review that covers the topic. It really drives home the point that binary thinking of receptor on/off and the traditional definitions of what an agonist, partial agonist are etc are not the full story for these types of receptors. And no, you probably cannot make that assumption. Also, I am a graduate student that studies non-psychedelic drugs and enjoy helping people learn, if you have any questions PM me.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16803859

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