Question about SDV
Ive heard a bunch of people say, "never volunteer for SDV". and just be generally negative about SDV
SO the simple question is: why do people volunteer? Whats so bad about it, as a outsider it seems pretty interesting, I mean, it seems like guys over there learn very advanced/ specialized diving techniques/ protocols/etc, etc.
Posted Jul 7, 2015, 12:31 AM UTC
1427
People volunteer because they're dumb fucking TG's. They hear, "It sucks. It's shitty. Don't do it." and they think, "I like the suck. I'm not a pussy. I'm going to do it."
Then they get there and they realize, "Oh, this just fucking sucks. Like bootcamp just sucks." It's not especially hard, it's not exciting at all, and the suck is all unnecessary and without benefit.
To give some specific negatives:
SDVT-1 has about a 10 to 1 support to operator ratio. The Command is predominately focused on dealing with the several hundred fleet technicians and support (Divers, HT's, IS's, etc.). It doesn't feel or behave like a SEAL Team.
It's a haven for O's. Every O knows that SDV will give them the opportunity to do the most "hands on" work at the highest level. Most of them go there to make their careers. They are more involved at every level. These are not good things. You end up with career minded Officers putting themselves before the boys, and very weak Senior Enlisted leadership (which is the kind of leadership you want, E7's-E9's that have been there and done that).
The missions are predominately "Strategic level" missions, which again a stupid TG hears and thinks, "Fuck yeah, saving the world, shit." but actually means long term planning by committee in Washington in an incredibly opaque manner. Your life is completely beholden to some civilians in an office somewhere whose names you'll probably never know, and whose intentions or plans are outside of your pay grade. While this is more or less true for everyone in the military, at SDV, it's worse. You may not get read into your mission until you're on the way to do it. On the Coast, you generally know where and when you'll be deploying. Things change constantly, of course, but it's not top-secret. At SDV, no one talks to anyone about missions. It's all compartmentalized and Top Secret, sometimes even within Platoons. i.e. the OIC will know where the mission is but not when. The Chief won't know where or when but will know what equipment is needed. The boys won't know shit, except that they need to have 'x' equipment ready, and this state of affairs can go on for years. It's not like, "Guys, get your rifles sighted in this week, somethings come up." It's like, "Don't have anything planned for March '15 - August '16, and make sure you have a warm wetsuit."
On that note, the missions themselves are usually fucked. You might end up devoting years of your life to doing something that will ultimately only benefit Lockheed Martin or Boeing. Missions that could easily be conducted by Navy Divers but aren't because of reasons (See the second bullet point above.)
You're in Hawaii. Hawaii is great for stints, but island fever is real. The I-5 from San Diego to LA has nothing on Honolulu traffic.
SDVT-1 also has a huge problem with adapting. Plenty of guys pass through, but the vast majority of good Operators realize it's fucked and either screen for DN, transfer back to a Coast, or just get out. As a result, the guys that tend to stick around and take leadership positions are "SDV guys" (like long term, career) and "SDV guys" tend to be shitty Operators. Especially in light of recent events. Imagine what kind of guys would have spent the entirety of 2003-2015 hiding at SDV instead of transferring to a real Team and getting some fighting. Shitbags, that's who. Well these shitbags have anchors on their collars now, and they're making training curriculum and planning tactics. They don't know what they're doing, so they just preach what they were taught a decade ago by some other guy who didn't know what he was doing. Redwings was typical SDV. Fucked tactics, inflated sense of self-importance, massive failure, no real change. "How could that be?" you ask. Well the great secret of SDV is that none of the SEAL stuff matters at all to the real mission. No one gives a shit if the tactics are outdated and silly, because all the O's are looking at that next tasking from Washington, and that's all they care about. Guns are rusting in the Armory? Doesn't matter. Guys haven't jumped in over a year? Doesn't matter. Bozo is telling them they should wear red because it's harder for the human eye to see? Doesn't matter. What matters is that powerpoint they're going to be giving to the 4-stars in DC on Thursday afternoon.
Even as an Operator you likely won't be relevant. Platoons are still roughly 16-24 guys. Missions rarely call for more than 4. Even with a B team, that's still work for less than half the Platoon. If you're not a Pilot or Nav, you'll probably just be human ballast.
Shits dangerous. The dive profiles are often experimental. Even when everything goes right, things can go wrong. It's not even exciting when they go wrong. A guy just burps on ascent and ends up with an AGE and permanent brain damage. No one's going to ask you if you got your speech impediment in the war. You lose a limb, you might at least get a good story out of it. Dive accidents are lame and uneventful.
I'm glad you mentioned SDV and Red Wings. The mission was completely botched. Mike Murphy should have lost his bird long before it ever came to him making a bad decision but politics wins out. SDV is not the Teams.
Quote of the century.
If an enlisted guy would have shot another SEAL in the back during a training op there would have been no question what would have happened 9 times out of ten.
Preaching to the choir on that. The double standard with O's is bullshit.
Murphy did that? Damn, never read that before.
I'm running off of assumptions here man and (mis?)information I've received about Him through the media. Could you elaborate? Primarily on why he should've been thrown out prior to Red Wings?
I already said it in this thread. He shot another SEAL in the back during a training op.
Oh shit, I thought that was just hypothetical. My mistake.
Wow, I never heard this before. But then it's not the kind of thing the Navy would want out there, especially in a story they worked so hard to control. Do you think Murphy deserves the honors that he received post-mortem? Or is that more officers looking out for officers and the Navy trying to control the story/politics?
I don't ask this to take anything away from the man. But if there's another side to the story, then I'd be grateful to hear it. I completely understand if you prefer not to elaborate.
Wow, why have I seen nothing but praise about him from other TGs who have worked with him? You would think someone would have come out about this incident before now..
I know little of the actual teams but it seemed from what I read that the "mission" of SDV was not what they should have been doing in Red Wings. Again, not like I know any of this but it just seemed off from what I've read.
Kind of matters what you mean by "should". Was it the "traditional" SDV mission? Basically, yeah. SR is the SDV "specialty", and it was an SR mission. Should that specific Op have been conducted like an SDV SR? Fuck no. Totally different operational environment, active combat zone, different insert platform, etc. Could they have pulled off an SR with those considerations? Probably, but the problem was they didn't, they did it like an SDV SR, and they screwed the pooch.
Now there's also the question of what the "real" SDV mission is, and I would argue that SR is not the "real" SDV mission, and hasn't been for a long time. If you look at it that way, SDV should never had been in Afghanistan to begin with. After Redwings, that became the predominate opinion. It's a shame, because if SDV had pulled their heads out of their asses, and done the job right, it could have been a success and lead to more work like that. Which again, going back to "should", I think they should be doing. There's no reason SDV couldn't be the world's most elite SR unit, and a viable DA option for covert targets of opportunity.
Thanks for the response, enlightening even.
Thats the stuff that really bums me out. Being an outsider I can't even think of a reason someone wouldn't be reprimanded for their actions, especially in the Teams, I mean, a fuck up could get someone else killed. Like if a doctor makes a mistake and gets a patient hurt or worse killed they are gone, done deal, no coming back. Could you possibly shed some light on why a person, and especially an officer, wouldn't get reprimanded in a serious way for a severe mistake (or series of mistakes as some have made it out to be), mistake isn't the right word, maybe lapse in judgement. Is it like an officers club, where they sweep fuck ups under the rug and don't say anything about it?
Sorry for the long comment, its just really difficult for me to understand.
So do SEALs have to volunteer for it or are they just randomly put in it? I think it would be shitty to go through all the training and get screwed with that job.
It's probably half and half. Plenty of guys get voluntold to go. If a guy volunteers, don't make any assumptions about him. If he volunteers again, then you can start make assumptions.