Assuming NPCs only, who would win in a full-scale war between the Horde and the Alliance?
Edit for clarity: Assume that these characters are no longer controlled by Blizzard and have free will etc.
Posted Sep 22, 2015, 6:55 PM UTC · edited
Depends. Are leaders now rational or are their thoughts still lead by the Blizzard writers?
If it were up to Chris Metzen Thrall would team up with Illidan, the Alliance and the Lich king from the past to travel into the future in a different dimension and team up with Hsorrag leader of the Crimson horde and fight the new threat that is the Freezing legion which is lead by Archimonds and Guldans evil demon baby.
IMO, lusted horde takes the cake, Thrall is atm the strongest "faction leader", if we consider that after the SoO he still represents the orcs, and not that he quit. Also, forsaken have the plague, belfs and goblins, mana-bombs and trolls, the voodoo. Again, this is lusted horde, whereas the darkspear actually become alot more like the gurubashi or the zandalari. Although, non-lusted horde atm is weak as piss. If we remove Thrall from the equation, in terms of leaders, Varian is the next one in the ranking of op'ness, considering that Anduin does not convince him not to fight. And in the end, atm, the alliance has more resources than the horde and has most of the kirin-tor and even Khadgar at their back... Tl;dr Lusted = Horde Not lusted = Alliance
Given the right reason to push them far enough I think the Horde could take them. I think if Sylvanas was allowed to run free with being able to bring people back to life Lich King style.
Lok'tar Ogar
Assuming NPCs you mean heroes (Thrall, Garrosh, Varian etc). Pre SoO probably Horde, but as much as it pains me to say at the current patch definitely Alliance for sure.
The Alliance has always had most of the most powerful NPCs on their side. Most notably Jaina, Malfurion, and arguably Rhonin and Tirion.
The Horde really only has Thrall
However, if my memory currently serves me correctly, Jaina isn't really "with" the Alliance right now. She is super pissed Varian didn't dismantle the Horde after SoO. Malfurion isn't Alliance either, he is with the Cenarion Circle and represents them more than the Alliance does. A lot of the Night Elves and Tauren have closer aligning viewpoints than the rest of their factions. Rhonin isn't Alliance either. While human and Night Elf characters, most of these are not tied to a faction. The same could be said for Thrall as well, currently not representing the Horde.
That being said, while Vol'jin is pretty badass, in terms of fighting prowess, I think Sylvanas and Varian are the two most dangerous NPCs representing the two factions. And based off what I remember about lore, I give that nod to Varian as well.
But since we are extending past just a faction leader brawl, I feel a lot of the Horde soldiers are more battle-ready than the Alliance. That's not saying they don't have great soldiers but I use the Wrathgate as an example of soldiers ready and willing to fight.
If we lump all NPCs of any race with the faction that "contains" that race, Alliance win I think as it includes the people you listed. If we remove faction-neutral or faction-grey-area characters, I give it to the Horde based off soldier capability.
All those people, while technically representing other factions are 100% unambiguously Alliance.
Jaina tried to kick all of the Blood Elves out of Dalaran and make the Kirin Tor ally with the Alliance
Ever tried to disagree with your wife? Malfurion's old and wise enough to know that's a terrible idea, especially with Tyrande.
Rhonin and Tirion would both support the Alliance if anyone really asked them.
I don't think many of the alliances are unambiguous anymore. The reasons they were originally formed are long gone and their beliefs clash with their factions quite often it seems.
If there was ever to be a splinter faction in the Alliance I would pin it on the Night Elves being the first to go. Centuries old demi-god and his centuries old lady are not so crass that they would unequivocally support the Alliance. And I don't think Tyrande is so short-sighted to say "Hey Mal, we're fighting the Horde for reasons, come fight with us." Malfurion is too wise for that, as is Tyrande. I think she knows Malfurion's role in the world and accepts that.
I could say the same thing about the Tauren too. I re-read up on Jaina and you're right that she re-aligned the Kirin Tor with Alliance officially so it's a big boon to their side.
Tirion is a harder sell for me though, depending on what he has done since ICC. He was very in much fighting alongside undead and other races for quite a while now, leading the Silver Hand against threats much more important than faction squabbling. I think it comes down to why the factions break out into war again.
If Garrosh was still in charge, pre-SoO when everyone turned on him, I can see it, no questions asked.
If there is a reason for this fight I think the lines of alliance are drawn differently. However if this is a scenario where we just put all the Alliance on one side and all the Horde on the other, I don't think Tirion is showing up to this fight, just as I don't think Thrall is either, nor Malfurion. Though after refreshing myself about Jaina's lore and seeing she is with the Alliance with the Kirin Tor, it puts the Horde at a significant disadvantage. Especially since over the years the Horde have lost more major players than the Alliance too.
Tirion isn't Alliance. He wouldn't abandon the Crusade, which is made up of a large number of Horde members, and fight the Horde when they have members who believe in the Light. He's as Lawful Neutral as it gets.
Also Rhonin is dead as bricks.
Rhonin is totally Alliance, he has fought for them in multiple wars throughout history.
Malfurion would go Alliance should the horde present an existential threat to his land or wifey.
Sure, I actually said something like that in my other comments. If the cause of the conflict wasn't just a theoretical fight between factions but had some type of provocation that put the Horde in the wrong then these sort-of faction characters would align themselves appropriately.
Fyi, Rhonins dead, nuked by the horde at Theramore.
You're right. I was thinking that was Krasus for some reason.
Well Krasus died in an explosion too. Also saving people, come to think...
I think you have a point but it really all depends on time placement. Pre SoO Horde was doing really well against the alliance (obviously at a huge price) especially when they dropped the mana nuke, note that they also had the dragons that Garrosh forcefully made Alexstraza poop out.
They were doing well, but it was unsustainable. The Alliance held without burning out their base from under them. SoO was going to happen eventually, and at that point the Alliance could very easily have crushed the Horde into oblivion once and for all.
It also depends what level of force OP is willing to add to each side. Jaina was about 3 seconds from wiping out Kalimdor after Theramore. Just a little less pushback from everyone else and that would have ended the war right there.
Yeah fair point. I guess we will see what happens after legion maybe the state of the factions will change
I mean all characters that aren't players.
Pretty much the same thing Alliance will be significantly stronger than horde for quite some time after SoO. Although the first battle will be a lot closer if Theramore hasn't been nuked yet.
Okay, serious answer, in the current state of things, the Alliance would probably win. The Horde suffered after MoP and they overall have weaker faction leaders, as most of them are simple warriors. The only way the Horde would've had a huge shot is if Varian did try to kill the Horde leaders at the end of SoO. Varian, Jaina, Anduin, and a dozen soldiers aren't going to last ten seconds against every Horde leader.
Now, in a 'standard' pre-MoP/Cata war, the Dwarves, Gnomes, and Humans would have to push North against the Forsaken and the Blood Elves. While they have superior technology with a small amount of planes, siege tanks, and guns, the Forsaken are an extremely durable, intelligent, and possibly the most dangerous race. They will deploy the Plague, and there's nothing the Alliance will be able to do about it. Their advance will be slowed in time for the Blood Elves to mobilize and help defend. Realistically, I think that the Blood Elves and Forsaken would be able to outlast the Alliance here. They have smaller numbers, but the Plague combined with some of the greatest Mages and Archers on Azeroth is going to be too much for a sustained siege and they'll have to retreat.
In Kalimdor the Horde will most likely push on the Night Elves as they usually do, and will probably fail. While the Forsaken might be the strongest race due to the Plague, the Night Elves are easily the second strongest, and not by much. The Horde is going to have a hard time advancing when they're constantly being peppered by arrows from targets they can't see (Shadowmeld is a canon ability. It is a blessing from Elune). Really, I don't see the Horde getting far. While they have a lot of Orcs, Tauren, and a few Trolls, they won't be able to beat the Night Elves and the entire forest they're trying to invade. If the Draenei come to further help the Night Elves it'll just further push them back. It'll end in a stalemate or a reluctant Horde retreat.
For neutral factions, Jaina and the Kirin Tor will most likely not get involved until the end of the conflict, as she won't want to fight Thrall, but she'll want to help Varian. Cenarius (depending on if this is Cata or pre-Cata) will want to defend Kalimdor, and probably won't care for the Tauren who joined under his banner. Those Tauren will probably leave to help fight the Night Elves. The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade will most likely remain neutral. They have their own problems and don't care for the Horde and Alliance.
TL;DR: Alliance loses in the Eastern Kingdoms, but wins in Kalimdor. At the end of the day, it's hard to imagine anything other than a 5/10, because so much can happen that can shift the advantage on either faction.
In the current lore of WoW, Alliance by a long shot. They've had little to no internal problems, whereas the Horde has been plagued by tons of problems and are still weak after SoO and all of that. Pretty much thet only faction in the Horde that's still doing fine are the Forsaken, whereas all the factions in the Alliance are as strong as ever (maybe even stronger than ever, I'm not sure about that one)
Not to mention that the Alliance has wrecked them a number of times. The only real big potentially lasting victory for the Horde was the destruction of the original Kingdom of Azeroth and that did not end well for the Horde. When all the human kingdoms united against them the Horde got kicked around pretty hard.
The truth is the Horde at the end of WC3 existed at the sufferance of a grateful Alliance willing to give them a second chance given all that happened. Since then war has been put off by mediators on both sides.
The wider truth is if humanity acted remotely like the Orcs they'd have wiped out the Horde on three separate occasions where they chose mercy instead.
What if we assume the AU Orcs both former Iron Horde and our Orc Allies join the Horde. I've been thinking that WOD was just an excuse to add more Orcs to the Horde.
What kind of numbers can we expect from the AU Orcs? IIRC the Orc Horde armies got pretty much wiped out in SoO so I think Alliance still take it unless the orc reinforcements are massive. Keep in mind that the Tauren also suffered losses through the whole Grimtotem situation.
I also think that at this point the Alliance heroes (Jaina, Varian, etc) can outclass the Horde heroes, but it's arguable.
It's a pretty popular fan theory that Wrathion helped Garrosh so that the events of WoD could take place. That way the Alliance and Horde would strengthen themselves in order to face the Iron Horde as well as get more allies from AU Draenor, which would help against the coming threat of the Legion.
Well we are stuck wondering on numbers until blizz finishes this expac. But I would assume there are more Orcs than Draenei in AU. I would say that the Horde racial leaders have a lot more unseen attributes that would put them over the Alliance heroes. Sylvanas still has a lot to her and if she wanted to could murder Varian since she wouldn't make it a straight up duel. We saw a good amount from Lor'themar in MOP but I believe he can do a lot more damage if he had to. I think it would come down to what Gallywix is capable of.
but Velen would pretty much destroy all the several horde leaders at once. If the Horde wanted to beat the alliance they would have to use Sylvanas's new plague. Eventually the undead would be by far the most powerful force in the horde, and everyone would have to band together to stop them or they would overrun the world.
However, the Forsaken being strong is probably the most dangerous thing. Allied with the rest of the Horde, you practically have a new Lich King which previously took both sides cooperating to take down. Thrall is probably the strongest leader if he's able to commune with the elements, Jaina is strong but the blood elves are literally known for their anti-magic combat, Vol'Jin is the strongest shadow hunter in the history of Azeroth having perfect control over the Loa, basically allowing him to commune with death spirits, not to mention his true strength lies in his role as a master tactician and strategist, and Sylvanas if let unleashed, could continue to raise an army of the undead, including those on her own side. It's not nearly close to as big of a stomp as you make it out to be. The Alliance's strongest heros are practically Jaina, Malfurion, and Velen (not counting Cenarius)