Source
r/Guildwars2•
jared_lethal

Why would you do lvl 50 FotM when you're already max-lvl ?

[Discussion]

Hello there!

Like the title asks: why would people do lvl 50 Fractals when you've already reached lvl 50? Since the chest reward is the same for lvl 41 to 50, why not go for lvl 42 Fractals, for example, which instability isn't really a problem?

My friend brought the maths:

In lvl 50 Fractals: Legendary enemies have 8.3% more health Champions have 8.7% more health Other enemies have 12.2% more health Bosses do 11.0% more damage Other enemies do 10.6% more damage

Hence my question: why "bother" run lvl 50 fractals with more AR needed, and harder foes to defeat for the same reward? I know some people like the challenge, so that might be the answer, but I also know for a fact that a lot of people in game seems to be more interested in running things faster/easier, yet I don't see a lot of lvl 42 fractals in LFG :D

So... Am I missing something or do people believe that lvl 50 FotM has its own reward tier?

Posted Sep 28, 2015, 1:33 PM UTC

067
diruuo•

Several reasons actually:

  • Loot is better as per the drop rate research that has been going for months and months;
  • If you have the AR the instability is even less of an issue then others (it's literally the easiest instability to manage);
  • If you have an experienced group the fractal is just as fast, if not faster, then any other scale;
  • If you're pugging you are more likely to run into pugs that are more experienced then your average pug resulting in a far smoother run (for a pick up group);
10
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

I understand the "round-number-fractals-instability" is the easiest but, even though I was thinking the drop was better as well, nothing says so in the wiki... Glad to here that the gathered data from players tends to show that it actually helps :)

1
diruuo•

The spreadsheets ran by several of the big guilds that run fractals regularly show that Armor and Weapon boxes are higher at 50 then they are at the lower levels, Skin drop rate is about identical throughout 41-50 and so is ring drop rate. Supposedly the tonic can only drop on 49 and 50 so you forego your chance of one if you go any lower.

2
iNeedAValidUserName•

The spreadsheets ran by several of the big guilds that run fractals regularly show that Armor and Weapon boxes are higher at 50

Not really, they show them as about the same - they just have A LOT more 50 runs because that's what everyone runs.

Same reason they don't have a drop of the tonic at sub 50, because by the time you're running enough to see it, really, you're probably running a 50 instead of anything else. The official source says it drops at 40+ u/Aquazero got theirs from 48 - and has screenshots to prove it, unfortunately the site they had it hosted on removed it.

3
diruuo•

I've mostly gone by the sheets from KING and LoD, and those show different information then the Crowdsourcing column shows on the one you linked. They are also up to date, and I feel like the one you linked isn't despite the dates on the side.

In regards to the official source, that's been posted almost 2 years ago. Fractal drop rates have been changed several times over the releases we've got so the research tables have been reset several times. A poll of everything is not useful as the drop rates have changed over the years.

In regards to the "people run more 50 then lower", there are actually quite a few non-50 runs in those spreadsheets so I think that's a mute point.

1
XilFaze•

The tonic is can drop from "41+"

1
diruuo•

I don't think there's a Single recorded tonic drop under 49, I'm not sure you're correct. As I said though, that is still an assumption that is backed by the drop rate research spreadsheets, thus the "supposedly" at the start.

1
moonlawlietToday, more shiny things•

How often are these big guilds running lower scale fractals, though? I'm interested in seeing the data if you know of any public spreadsheets to see if they're running enough all around rather than favoring 50 because they expect better rewards and then having enough data from just 50 to justify it, while the other scales are more afterthoughts

1
diruuo•

According to the spreadsheets, fairly often.

1
YlvinaSolid Vote [kick] ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)•

some of the called spreadsheets:

by [KING]

by [LOD]

2
Shmako•

Level 50 doesn't have its own reward tier, it sits in the 41-50 tier.

It's primarily because frequent Agony is a lot easier to deal with than any other instability, including 42's halved endurance regeneration - everything hits hard in high level fractals, active damage mitigation is key to staying alive, and dodging is the main source of that mitigation. Getting smacked a ~8k because you're out of endurance is a lot more dangerous than losing 5% hp every so often.

Other reasons include extra challenge, a better chance to find more skilled/experienced players due to the extra 15 AR required, and an apparently better Fractal Tonic drop rate at scale 50. It's suspected that the end chest drop rates are slightly better in a 50 compared to a 41, although I'm not sure if it's been confirmed anywhere.

4
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

as a Thief i can rely on the necessity to dodge :D Thanks for your answer :)

1
Farnes_The Asuran Creed•

Easier instability.....and people belive lvl 50 have higher RNG for skins/ascended crap. I am one of those :P

3
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

lol you should try lvl 42 then since the instability is pretty easy and enemies are weaker ;)

but thanks for confirming what i thought: people are mistaken by big numbers :D i'm not the only one then ;)

-3
pitifullonestone•

They're all pretty easy. The instability at 50 is simply the least annoying and most mindless, which means it's usually the one people can finish quickest. The only reason to do 42 would be for the karma rewards for doing a level below your personal reward level.

1
Farnes_The Asuran Creed•

lvl 42 dont sell as good as lvl 50 :P

Also, reduced endurance regeneration is annoying as fuck

1
hetojur•

Generally speaking, pugging a 50 usually goes much smoother than any lower tiers, especially post HoT fractal announcement.

3
Reelix.6319 - Kaela Lirrithin [rddt] - Aurora Glade [EU] - 14K AP F50•

PUG'd a F50 last night / this morning.

Ever had a F50 with 2 Rifle-Only Warriors and no Guardian? I have ;<

3
dictionthief•

Please tell me they were just fucking with you and didn't actually make it all the way to F50 running those builds.

1
Reelix.6319 - Kaela Lirrithin [rddt] - Aurora Glade [EU] - 14K AP F50•

There was chaos all through the Fractal...

Swamp wasn't that bad (Mossman - Multiple downed, but no wipes)

Harpy Fractal (Dancing Asura?) was a freaking Nightmare - SO many wipes (People activating the golem too early, people dying the second combat started, sitting in poison whilst standing right next to the switch with a crystal at their feet, not knowing how to use Stability to stand on a Harpy platform, etc)

Grawl is what eventually ended us. .... I was the only person throwing rocks at the boss during the first phase (We passed by 3 seconds since I had spec'd Quickening Zephyr so I could run faster during combat since I normally focus rocks here), and the Shaman at the end wiped us at the first grub phase over and over again.

1
QewkiElona Reach •

I feel you. I'm always pugging fractals 50 (with my SO, so "only" 3 randoms) and the range of builds/skill you encounter is enormous. D: When I was getting my first Ranger instead of a second guard once in a while I was really kind of happy.. inb4 they didn't have spotter/frost spirit/ were camping longbow.. I cried a little inside. And it happens more often than not..

1
dictionthief•

Man, it just makes you wonder what they did for scales 1-49. Or they straight up crafted ascended gear and jumped straight into 50s.

1
Petoox.6570 | Desolation | S/D DAREDEVIL HYPE•

I played yesterday with D/D Ele that was not meta zerker for sure, even though I asked for that in lfg. 50 minutes in Cliffside until I left.

1
Chuckdatass•

Your fault for not quitting on sight. I do 50 fractals with my friend, and we stand at the start and if they load in with any dog crap weapon on, it's an instant punt

0
Reelix.6319 - Kaela Lirrithin [rddt] - Aurora Glade [EU] - 14K AP F50•

If you're intending to do that then you generally state so in the LFG.

I specifically join randomised PUG groups for the variance. Sure, you often get your generic meta builds, but every now and then you get a rather fun / unique / interesting build lurking around that actually works :)

2
Cuedon•

Most of the time, I load in with no mainhand and a warhorn since I expect to be running a wisp...

1
Chuckdatass•

Warhorn is acceptable for trash clearing due to its weakness production. Also that isn't a dog crap weapon since it's used for skipping and said weakness. But I was speaking of a rifel, shield, mace mainland, hammer etc on a warrior

1
Sjaakdelul(O.O)/•

Fractal tonic..

But seriously.

  • Better rewards.
  • Easier to remember which one you did and to remember to what tier they belong. 30/40/50 over 29/34/49?
  • In 50 you know you get committed people over pugs that just enjoy fractals but don't want to invest which usually means better players and faster runs.
  • 40's have annoying instabilities which make some of them bothersome or even annoying if you roll certain classes.
2
GunsnrollChaíns•

Level 50 is usually faster than any 41-49 because instabilities on those levels are a pain.

1
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

most of them yes. But how a reduce endurance regeneration can be that hard to deal with? Is the increased health and power of enemies worth it? Guess you'd go with a yes on that question :D

1
GunsnrollChaíns•

less endurance=less dodge.

2
QewkiElona Reach •

less dodge=more wipe.

3
Elianor_tijo•

This, for some classes/builds the difference in enemy damage will not matter because you're already very glassy. The loss of endurance is really gonna hurt those.

1
SageOfTheWise•

The increased HP and power of enemies between a few levels isn't even noticeable.

1
StackofCAPSStaffStaffStaff•

There's something like a 12% chance of getting an ascended armor chest and 4.5% of getting a weapons chest (according to data gathered from others. This is very comparable to crafting your own as it would require a significant amount of gold to make from nothing while you get it for free as a drop. Those percentage chances are pretty desirable in my opinion. Also, it's noticeable if you do it log enough.

1
ZuiPlaysGW2[DnT] - Twitch.tv/ZuiStreams•

Level 50 has almost no change in difficulty compared to Level 49. Furthermore, it's faster than 49 because the instability at 49 reduces damage.

Level 50 may have better rewards compared to Level 49. I haven't bothered to actually look at any of the data that exists and do statistics on it (and I know a lot of that data groups the whole tier, i.e. 41-50, making the determination of 49 vs 50 impossible), because honestly, who cares.

Level 50 will generally yield slightly better PUG groups than Level 49. And having more damage because it isn't reduced by dodging is a huge plus, especially with a PUG group where the coordination and knowledge of the mechanics isn't quite there, and as such people might dodge unnecessarily or not do things that will allow other party members to not have to dodge certain attacks (e.g. Aegis from Guardians, or a shared Distortion from Mesmers).

1
yusoffb01•

This is such a good discussion. why do people downvote thread to oblivion

1
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

lol i guess it has received every answer it could? I wasn't even planning on so many ;)

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Apolyon_BS•

I don't, rewards are so bad that I don't play fractals any more... I'll probably level up top 100 with hot, then stop again with 0 fractal skins

0
Eveeeeeeee[HeX]•

If you're at 0 skins you haven't actually done fractals for proper time anyways.

3
Cheezy13[vC]•

But it's understandable to get frustrated if you dropped 0 skins while leveling up to scale 50

1
Reelix.6319 - Kaela Lirrithin [rddt] - Aurora Glade [EU] - 14K AP F50•

You're really unlikely to get a skin leveling to 50...

1
Cheezy13[vC]•

I know.

But it's frustrating. Which is my only point

1
Apolyon_BS•

Truth be told, I have actually 2 skins (trident and short bow), but that doesn't really add up with the time invested in farming fractals. On the other hand, I got plenty of ascended drops, and even more infused rings than normal ones... but that's not what I want. I played so many fractals that just thinking about repeating them again, simply makes me sick.

1
Adonyx•

I only recently started playing again about a month ago, and in 1 month i've gotten 12 fractal skins (1 duplicate, so 11 distinct skins) and over 15 ascended chests. Did they increase the drop rates? About 6 months ago I was doing fractals at the same pace and I only ever got maybe 2 ascended chests and no weapon skins in several months of running them.

1
Eveeeeeeee[HeX]•

You must be the most luckiest guy I've seen then. I've done daily full fractal tour and got like 1 skin in 3 weeks.

1
Adonyx•

Oh...I don't mean to brag, but I really thought the drop rates had increased. There's someone in my guild who has even better luck with drops, but I guess it's just a fluke.

1
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

I hope raids are gonna offer you what you're seeking in that game?

1
BastiatCF•

lvl 41-50 are the same drop rate of ascended stuff and skins.

50 is the easiest mistlock to deal with provided you have the agony resistance. Lvl 49 may look like a good idea, but the damage reduction is very heavy. I was testing it out a bit the other night and being at very low endurance, I was seeing reductions of 80%+. Thats not to 80% that reduction of 80%. I dont know what the actual scaling is and the wiki doesnt say, but its not ignorable. In fact it makes it so that lvl 49 enemies practically have much higher hp than 50 because of the damage reduction.

-1
Cuedon•

I want to say it's something like %ofEndurance=%ofDamage, but that was just with a rough eyeballing of numbers combined with spotty memory.

1
BastiatCF•

Thats what I wanted to say, but I went dodge-dodge attack (range on the first harpy in harpy fractal) and damage never got low enough to confirm it went from 0%-100%. I thought maybe it kept base power, but based on the damage formula (power is a multiplier) it shouldnt be cut by more than about 60% because you get 1000 base.

Its possible that it bottoms out somewhere of course.

I am also curious why the downvote brigade went after my comment lol

1
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

I was already planning on avoiding lvl 49 fractals for that reason :D

-1
BastiatCF•

49 isnt bad as far as extra things that hurt you, it just takes lots of time because dodging is so crucial in fractals.

0
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
lokikaraoke[MEGA] / @megaguild•

You didn't even remotely understand their question.

2
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

I know that, i was talking about fractal level not character level, sorry you misunderstood me :)

1
Ceraunos•

Oh sorry, i thought you meant level 50 (as you say in the post), not Scale 50.

1
jared_lethalOPThe Loot is Mine•

my bad i didn't think about using the word "scale" to disambiguate my post. I generally use "level" for both my character and the fractal =/

1
Milkingfox•

I dont think you've understood the question.

1