Source
r/masseffect•
TheRealRacker

Is the conversation wheel as bad for anyone here as reddit makes it out to be?

With Fallout 4's conversation system people have been trashing the conversation wheel mechanic as inaccurate and misleading for conversation, as well as not giving enough choices. I have not once had that issue with Mass Effect, with 2 playthroughs of ME1 and ME2 and 4 of ME3, both paragon and renegade. Always felt the short descriptor was accurate and Shepard never surprised me with what he said.

So do any of you guys have issues with the conversation wheel in Mass Effect? Or does it work out fine for you as well? I personally would not mind it at all being in ME Andromeda as long as it's as good as ME 1-3.

Posted Nov 9, 2015, 7:32 PM UTC

521
enkindlethat•

Never had a problem with it. Tells you what you need to know without spoiling the actual dialogue and interactions. I dislike it more in Dragon Age, tbh.

21
TheRealRackerOP•

I haven't played dragon age, only ME. How is it different in Dragon Age?

2
enkindlethat•

There's no paragon/renegade system, some replies just have these little mood icons next to them and what's available will always vary, so I feel like I never have a good grasp on my Inquisitor's personality or what she's actually gonna say.

Dragon Age 2 was better in that the options were more consistent (like in Mass Effect) but you pretty much HAVE to pick the same option every time if you don't want Hawke to sound like they have a personality disorder, which: boring.

7
quinntessence23•

actually, DAI usually uses the same system as DA2, but with less emphasis on the personality. Top responses are usually supportive and caring, middle responses are usually sarcastic or political, and bottom responses are usually more aggressive and direct. I feel that last changed the most - it's more often direct than aggressive, whereas I've hardly ever picked a red option becuase I usually found them needlessly antagonistic (which is how I feel about Renegade most of the time, so you can calibrate how much of a goody-two-shoes I am...)

I personally prefer the mood icons that DAI has to the ME system, because it means more than 3 options in many circumstances (though I wish they'd used the mood icons anytime you weren't making a choice between multiple paths forward. It would have made it more clear that there was a personality attached to each of the options, and given you context for the bliurb to set your expectations before clicking the dialogue without having to trial-and-error to find out it's really just like DA2.

3
Chawklate•

I should mention that Enkendlethat is talking about Inquisition, not Origins, which is more like an old school RPG in terms of dialogue (lots of choice that show what they say ordered as a list)

1
WayneFigNewtons•

People don't like it in Fallout because the conversations in the Fallout games haven't had a conversation wheel, because your PC was silent and the replies were often longer, branched and your stats affected what kind of conversations you could have.

In fact, if you chose to make your character have the lowest intelligence, your character would literally respond as such, with broken english.

This is the wheel in Fallout 4:

http://i.imgur.com/5gVghQT.jpg

This was the dialogue in Fallout 2:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6PqMe7fydq4/hqdefault.jpg

So it's more of a backlash that because the conversation wheel works for Mass Effect/Bioware, and they're popular and voice acted, then Fallout should have it too, but it never had to, and that's one of the main reasons it's disliked.

TL;DR - It's jarring in Fallout. I'd argue in open world RPG's in general the limited choices don't work as well as in a more linear story.

7
TheRealRackerOP•

Yeah I can see how it would be weird in Fallout, because the "old" system worked out great in New Vegas for me, but once it was revealed that was how the dialogue would work in 4 people started saying Mass Effect and Dragon Age and The Witcher had shit dialogue as well because of the wheel, which was odd because I really had no problem in ME.

3
quinntessence23•

"it's different! they're trying to be like those other successful games! therefore if it's a problem here it must have been one there! I hate the change for fallout, so I must hate the source too, even if before this it was just something I would have preferred be different in the other game!"

As someone who hoped the Fo4 protagonist wouldn't be voiced, the way that the community has responded negatively in context with the people making arguments for how it would help you connect to the character and all the comparisons to BioWare games have made me look forward to the addition. 'Course, my wife (who has been excited about the change from the moment I mentioned that there was a rumor about it) has also made some good points about that away from the internet, so she's probably had a huge impact as well. It just annoys me how much of the backlash isn't fully thought out and is easily answered in a few reasonable points. I've been posting like an avid supporter of the new system just because I don't absolutely hate it (And I never have a good argument against the real supporters. They're usually plenty reasonable)

1
meshaber•

Limited choices

Ehr, the picture from Fallout 2 has fewer choices than the one from 4.

3
EonOmega•

That's not an accurate assessment because you have a huge array of choices before that, and this is a niche, difficult to get to conversation. You're essentially prank calling the Enclave in this section if you don't just say 'whoops my bad, gotta get back to fixing this now.'

Here it is. It also makes everyone go aggro on you at that point. (1:24 is when the stuff in the image pops up.)

3
meshaber•

Well, that's not apparent from the picture.

2
Chawklate•

What is apparant from the picture though is that the options in FO 2 are more detailed and show exactly what you're gonna say.

2
evaned•

inaccurate and misleading for conversation, as well as not giving enough choices.

I think there's a little truth to this even in ME. A computer RPG is by it's very nature constrictive compared to what you could do in real life or in a tabletop RPG, so I'm sure everyone has run across times when they thought "man, I really wish I could say ____ here" and that's unavoidable. But I feel like very occasionally there's a pretty glaring omission.

The problem gets pretty acute in ME3; there are a lot of places where you're put into something where it forces you between just the paragon/renegade options with no middle ground, in places where I think my Shepard wouldn't take a side. Sometimes I think that's nice and it can force you to commit on a major decision (e.g. Udina vs Anderson), but I feel like ME3 does it over and over again for things that are minor. I hope they avoid that in the future.

5
quinntessence23•

see, I felt that upped the stakes in ME3. You didn't have a middle road, you didn't have time to pursue a compromise, you had to either cut a deal with someone or yell someone into submission. It added to the feeling of not having enough options or enough time to halt the wave coming at you.

That said, I've started noticing that I play a character better when I'm given some guidelines to work with (ME) than when I'm simply given a chance to build whatever I can think of (D&D). I'm better at explaining why my character picked one of a limited set of options than coming up with the right choice for the character (and I'm perfectly happy to simply say any additional dialogue I do think of out loud after the protagonist finishes talking. My wife finds this very amusing, and has been encouraging the behavior...)

2
meshaber•

Not sure how Fallout does it, can't compare. Stopped paying attention to Bethesda games after Oblivion was the hugest disappointment since Disney's Atlantis.

I think it could be fairly misleading in the first game, but they worked it out in the sequels. Never had any problems in TOR either. The small number of choices is a fair criticism, but I think quality>quantity, and I think it hits a nice balance most of the time.

2
valergain•

My biggest problem with dialouge wheels is often what it says on the wheel and what is actually said by the character can vary wildly in content and tone. It does result with frequent cases of wait that's not I meant at all.

2
SymbolicGamer•

I've had enough of your snide insinuations.

2
NLaBruiser•

I'm doing a replay right now while I wait for Fallout 4, and I'm about 75% through Mass Effect 2. My biggest issue is with Renegade dialogue in ME2.

So often, you'll choose a response that's worded in a way that comes off as 'firm', but then Shepard launches into a full volume screaming takedown of whoever he/she is talking to.

Paragon choices seem less jarring - they generally match what I feel the response would be. Renegade, less so.

1
totomaya•

I'm looking forward to it in Fallout 4. A lot of what people are complaining about are what I like the most, such as not knowing exactly what your character is going to say.

1
tropicalrecon•

I like the wheel. It makes sense to pick a summary of what is going to actually be said.

1