Source
r/whowouldwin•
Argoti

Corporal Nobby Nobbs (Discworld) vs Gunner First Class Ferik Jurgen (WH40k: Ciaphas Cain novels)

Had a similar post over a year ago, not many results, wanted to post again, at a probably better time and also expanded.

Round 1: Scavenging in the junkyards Ord Mantell (Star Wars Legends, if it matters). Who can get the more impressive arsenal of weapons and valuables? Both have knowledge of the SWL tech equivolent to the knowledge their have of their universes tech.

Round 2: Dining in the Restaurant at the End of The Universe. Who's presence causes a bigger commotion, the most dirty looks? Assume the social drawbacks of Jurgen being a blank are in full effect.

Round 3: Bar brawl on Deep Space 9. Who wins with just the improvised weapons available, improvised weapons only.

Bonus 1: Working together for as long it it takes for one to win, can Vimes figure out Cain is a (supposed) coward before Cain figures out Vimes has the assistance of the Summoning Dark?

Bonus 2: Bar Brawl part 2: The Ankh-Morpork Watch vs an equal number of the Valhallan 597th (1 Troll and Wee Mad Arthur = 10? Guardmen lets say) improvised weapons only; Ankh-Morpork bar brawl scoring rules in effect. The 597th has full understanding of the rule set. All are comfortable at the temperature.

Bonus X: Whatever other match ups you think would be good involving the 2 and anyone attached to them.

edit Changed Round 1, had meant for it with the edit but had copy-pasted originally.

Posted Dec 3, 2015, 1:41 PM UTC · edited

2614
OnnaJReverT•

i unfortunately do not know enough about Jurgens to answer properly for his side, but damn do i love this prompt

R1: probably not Nobby - he has no idea of SW (or any high-level) tech, whereas Jurgens should at least know what to look for (mainly guns)

R2: would the RatEotU actually care about either of them? that place has some weird guests (and staff for that matter. and food...)

maybe throw them out if they make too much or a commotion

R3: Nobby in a barfight? wouldnt he try to GTFO immediately (stealing what he can on the way)? if they are forced to fight anyone from W40k's military can probably take him on easily

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ArgotiOP•

Would R1 change if Nobby had knowledge?

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OnnaJReverT•

it might? he is good at scavenging, but not very good at anything involving engineering, so i'm not sure how much use he can get out of scrap

given that from my understanding Jurgens is part of the 40k military, he should at leat have basic weapons maintenance skills, probably giving him an edge even if Nobby can identify and use modern/future tech

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aescolanus•

I agree with /u.therainydaze that Jurgen takes rounds 1-3, so let's go for the bonuses.

Bonus 1: Working together for as long it it takes for one to win, can Vimes figure out Cain is a (supposed) coward before Cain figures out Vimes has the assistance of the Summoning Dark?

While both of them are excellent at disassembling, this round almost certainly goes to Cain. Cain's 'cowardice' manifests as combat pragmatism - if he's to be believed, he considers his reputation as a hero important enough to his continued well-being to take calculated risks with his life. Vimes won't be looking too closely at Cain's motivation for taking those risks, since he doesn't really seem to care why someone does their job as long as they do do their job.

On the other hand, the Summoning Dark, in 40K terms, is Chaos taint - probably Khornate, with the whole bloodlust vengeance thing it has going on - and Cain knows, and fears, Chaos. He's going to be a lot more suspicious of any little slips Vimes makes. He might write random distraction and bloodthirst off as just Vimes' character, but if Jurgen gets too close to Vimes and his blankery mucks with Vimes' connection to the Dark in a noticeable fashion, Cain's going to instantly figure that something uncanny and Warp-related is going on.

Bonus 2: Bar Brawl part 2: The Ankh-Morpork Watch vs an equal number of the Valhallan 597th (1 Troll and Wee Mad Arthur = 10? Guardmen lets say) improvised weapons only; Ankh-Morpork bar brawl scoring rules in effect. The 597th has full understanding of the rule set. All are comfortable at the temperature.

Watch 9/10. Even if the 597th has extra numbers and (a lot) more battle experience, they're still mostly unaugmented humans. The Watch has a werewolf, a vampire, lots of dwarves (generally stronger than humans IIRC), a bunch of trolls, various undead and demihumans that I'm sure I'm forgetting. The Watch also probably has more experience with melee and improvised weapons in general (given the usual run of 40k opponents, any guardsman who gets within melee range of anything else rapidly assumes room temperature).

(BTW, does 'comfortable at the temperature' mean that the trolls get normal troll intelligence (which normally only manifests at subzero temperatures)? Then the 597th is double plus screwed.)

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Animastryfe•

I love the OP's question, I love your response, I love everyone here.

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ArgotiOP•

Great response on the bonuses, though B1 I'd think maybe Tzeentch would also be fitting. Sure there's rage but there's also great purpose to it. Atleast thats what I remember from Thud.

B2 I meant more for it to not be an additional issue for the 597th. Trolls would probably be at book-normal intelligence... maybe normal Human levels if we want to stretch. I figured the 597th would lose. Does it change if they have their fully Company instead? Assuming they had the room.

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ArchmageTolvan•

Nobby loses all rounds, but the Watch stomps the last one. Too many superhuman members. Trolls, vampires, werewolves, Wee Mad Arthur, etc. would be too much to handle with just improvised weapons.

Also Carrot.

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sorendiz•

Fairly sure carrot and wee mad Arthur alone could take it if it was in a discworld book; narrativium matters here

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ArchmageTolvan•

Honestly, Carrot could solo in a world with Narrativium.

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sorendiz•

yes & no, i feel like carrot is very much not a lone wolf, so the ally bonus would be massive to his plot device levels of... everything, really. Unless you're a werewolf in which case yeah he's gonna solo you hard

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ArchmageTolvan•

True.

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TheRainyDaze•

Discworld and Ciaphas Cain? Bitchin'.

R1: Jurgen is more familiar with sci-fi armaments than Nobby, who has never even seen a gun before. Nobby might get more valuables as he's sn actual petty thief rather than just a scrounger, but Jurgen ends up with enough heavy arms to destroy a battalion.

R2: Jurgen. All the way. Nobby is kind of gross and rather unwashed, but Jurgen generates hostility and disgust from every sentient creature in the galaxy simply by existing.

R3: Again, it's our man from Valhalla at least 9/10. Nobby has been described as being skinny and weak, and I don't think he's won a single fight in the entire series. Jurgen, on the other hand, has several decades of experience fighting monstrous aliens all across the galaxy, many of them in hand-to-hand combat.

Maybe Nobby 1/10 by being a thoroughly sneaky bugger. Having said that, I seem to remember that Jurgen survived being shot in the helmet with a bolt pistol, so his toughness is pretty impressive so I'm not sure if Nobby could even take him out with a surprise attack.

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ArgotiOP•

Would R1 change if Nobby had knowledge of SWL tech equivalent to his knowledge of Discworld tech/weapons?

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vadergeek•

Gunner Jurgen stomps all three rounds. He has much more combat proficiency, and while they're comparably ugly Gunner Jurgen is both a blank and a horrible-smelling person. Nobby is more of an even match with Baldrick than Jurgen.

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