All Politicians Lie. Some Lie More Than Others.
nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops...
nytimes.comPosted Dec 11, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC
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nytimes.comAlso Trump lies ALL THE TIME. Which is something I've pointed out to Trump supporters when they talk badly about Clinton which they promptly ignore.
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Of course they ignore it.
Trump is what they wish they were but they're too cowardly to have a voice. He's loud and says what he wants. Even though what he says is ignorant, he actually has the balls to say dumb stuff.
His supporters, not so much. They're the type of people that's insecure and easily frightened by things that's foreign to them.
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Exactly.
Now I'm waiting for someone to say that the fact checkers are liberal. I've seen that bandied around in conservative circles.
It's this weird irony that conservatives fall into postmodern deconstruction of narratives ALL THE TIME. It's ironic because it's so closely related to the leftism they abhor.
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I can smell what you're not cookin', and it smell delicious
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They're the type of people that's insecure and easily frightened by things that's foreign to them.
Also, they make huge generalizations of people.
0†
Trump is a master politician.
Not only that, but he has flip flopped like a fish out of water. Remember in the 90's when he was pro-choice and proposed a wealth tax? Now he's conservative Frankenstein's monster. Either he's lying, or.. he's lying.
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He's just straight lying. lol
I don't think he has any real feelings about politics, except being rude, "strong," and assertive.
Some people want that I guess.
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The greatest indictment of the American economic system is that it allows men like Trump to exist outside prison, let alone how it rewards them.
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Well, I don't want to say he belongs in prison. I wasn't aware that he had broken the law in such a way that merits a prison sentence.
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He's a master entertainer.
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Since he has never held office, he is not a politician at all. He's a campaigner at this point and a terrible one. All his short term success at riling up a plurality of primary voters has come at the expense of pretty much ruining his chances of ever winning on the general.
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It really irks me as all of the Trump fans I've talked to have said they enjoy his "non-PC, straight shoot'n" way of talking.
I could actually respect an honest asshole, but he's literally just an asshole and that's why people like him? It really boggles my mind that "being a dick" is the only qualifier they need from a dude to support him.
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So trump isn't a racist and is just pandering for votes? Color me shocked
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Please show/name me one thing he lied about.
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You don't believe the NYT article
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So I guess you don't have anything?
Also Trump lies ALL THE TIME.
I rate this claim False.
P.S. Politifact is a joke. Much like your statement.
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There it is. The conservative rejection of objective reality.
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Wow, liberals lie less than conservatives. Who would have thought?
Also, it seems to undercut a Sanders narrative--that Hillary is less trustworthy than Bernie. They're about even in regards to truth-telling which is a good proxy for trustworthiness.
I wish they'd just say she's not liberal enough for them. That'd be more a sober take
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Fact-checkers do not rate the candidates on whether the policies they support align with the speeches they give.
Bernie supporters say she is less trustworthy because of her policies, not because she makes false statements. If you say you are for the middle class but wait until it's politically convenient to denounce the TPP, you are less trustworthy in the eyes of a liberal than if you condemn it right from the beginning. If you say you support equal rights, but wait until it polls over 60% to support gay marriage, you are less trustworthy on that issue than someone who supported it for decades. If you condemn hawkish foreign policy in speeches but vote for pro-war policies, you are not going to get a negative fact check article written about you - but that does not mean you are equally as trustworthy as someone who condemns the policy and then actually votes against it.
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I can't wait for your pathetic holy war to be over.
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What does that mean?
Candidate A makes 50 speeches promising to vote conservative. 25 are found to contain "mostly false" claims. After being elected, candidate A votes conservative.
Candidate B makes 50 speeches promising to vote conservative. 25 are found to contain "mostly false" claims. After being elected, candidate B votes liberal.
You're saying both candidates are equally trustworthy?
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I'm saying that your quest for ideological purity will end in compromise or disappointment
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True, and that it why I favor Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton, her conservatism, not the lying MSM's stupid attacks against her.
They, the MSM never attacks her conservatism, they fake up lies and let Congress use their organization to run tax paid political attacks
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I'd say you'd have a point about her being conservative if you could find one conservative who agrees. one who says "yep, she's a conservative."
Center-left, I think would be more accurate.
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I don't have to stop using the dictionary because a large portion of the nation doesn't use one. You are talking about people who think the New York Times is liberal.
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It's certainly left of center. No one would remotely call it a right wing newspaper.
Just because it's not flaming leftist, doesn't mean it's conservative.
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The weird moment when the guy who got hit with lying under oath is the most truthful of the bunch.
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I liked this and the Martin O'Malley chart. Was never "Pants on Fire" lying but never told the truth. Ringing endorsement of a true politician.
BTW, if you mention Martin O'Malleys' name on Reddit, he personally reads your comment. What's up man!!!
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If I say his name three times, will he magically appear in the room with me?
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He will, but you have to ask yourself 'Is this really worth it?'.
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This wouldn't include his term as mayor of Baltimore either
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people who read notice that there is discussion of the sampling bias based on Politifact only tracking since 2007 which explains your weird moment if you're open to explanation.
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While Politifact is a great resource to check the truth in specific arguments, you simply can't do large-scale analysis on all the statements they've fact-checked -- like this article does -- and make any conclusions. Selection bias is just too big of an issue.
Sure, Donald Trump lies a lot, but if you fact checked every single statement he makes I'm sure he would tell the truth more often than not. But they only check a fraction, and it's a fraction they select themselves. How do they choose how many True statements to fact-check? Why does Hillary and Bernie have so many, while Trump has none? I'm sure Trump occasionally says true things too.
I'm not saying Politifact is liberally biased, but picking whichever statements you feel like fact-checking is an inherently unscientific procedure. Hence, any conclusions you get from the statistics of it will be at best incredibly susceptible to bias, and at worse simply false.
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I gotta agree with you here, even though its the same argument that the GOP uses against NPR - Bias not by what is reported, but what is not reported can still be considered bias. You can still wag the dog almost as easily this way.
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... Npr has changed... I don't mind a left leaning skew, but hot damn they have been pushing some Straight up fascist neoliberalism lately. Regarding immigration they fail to make the distinction between illegal and legal, they had some nut job calling for a complete repeal of the second amendment... Their pieces are staunchly anti-police, anti-west... That's my take on it anyway...
Where the hell can I listen to a middle of the road independent source? I like guns, I'm an atheist, I believe blacks being coddled by the left only creates more problems. Immigrants and illegal immigrants are different, Hispanics are not one homogenous group of voters, Europe should close there borders immediately.
I believe multiculturalism only works in America and should have no place anywhere else. I also believe multiculturalism only works when the cultures are complementary.
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You shouldn't look for a news source that agrees with what you already like. You should just look for one that seems to present both sides when both sides are respectable, and that isn't afraid to call out one side as wrong when they're clearly wrong and their arguments aren't respectable.
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Wow, so all the Democrats are significantly more honest than any Republican? Interesting.
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It's surprising that this is surprising to you.
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I thought the way they ordered the people in the accompanying chart was a little weird (they seem to have sorted by "% False" with nothing else taken into account), so I did my own analysis. I scored POF (-3), F (-2), MF (-1), N (0), MT (1), and T (2). Summed the totals, then divided by the total number of fact checks each person had. Sorted by this metric instead to give an indication of who is most likely to be either wrong/lying or right/telling the truth (top to bottom on the chart.) Keep in mind this is based only on things that Politifact has been asked to review - not every statement ever made by the candidates. I also colored the names red (Republican) or blue (Democrat) to show the discrepancy there.
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Interesting to note that, Mich like their voting records, despite the extreme statements that sometimes fly around Sanders and Clinton are actually about equal compared to anyone else.
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Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are the only ones who tell the truth more than 50% of the time.
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Before we jump on the Republican candidate hate bandwagon (and with all due respect to the NYT), consider this x-post opinion regarding this article.
Even the author admits giving the controversial Donald extra scrutiny, and is not exactly a fan of him. At the very least, whether you swing left or right, I'd take the results with a grain of salt unless you're familiar with the study's methodology.
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In the Democratic race, Senator Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are evenly matched at 28 percent (based on 43 checks of Mr. Sanders and 140 checks of Mrs. Clinton). Outside of the primary campaign, we’ve continued checking the public statements of Bill Clinton since 2007; he comes out slightly ahead of President Obama in his truth-telling track record.
Al those ppl saying HILLARY is the liar when she has been more fact checked than Bernie and is still equally honest.
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Seems like Sanders is more truthful but ranked lowrr than Hilary....WTF???
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They only ordered the chart based on "percent less than neutral" with no regard for anything else. I did my own analysis and found Sanders scored lower than Hillary, not by much, but you can see how I did it here.
Basically I gave a score to each category (on a scale of -3 to +2) and tallied it up, then divided by the total number of checks for each person.
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Hillary is careful to never say anything with substance, so her vague rhetoric cannot be proven false.
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Some newspapers are biased. Some more biased than others.
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Trump does exaggerate which is unfortunate because the issues he has been caught exaggerating about are still really important.
Like the black crime thing had false numbers but the truth is still depressing.
So the media gets to say Trump lied about black crime and say whites kill just as many whites as black kill blacks with out any context to those numbers.
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His numbers about black on black crime (or, I should say, the numbers in the neo-nazi propaganda image he retweeted) weren't "exaggerated", they were completely flipped.
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Yes, and Obama is the champion. Greatest liar we've seen in generations.
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Hillary Clinton lies more than others.
FTFY
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Someone could use some reading comprehension classes
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Sadly now even fact-checking is seen as partisan and biased. Instead of trying to use more facts, the conservative echo-chamber has just added fact-checkers to their enemies list. Ted Cruz devotes much of his recent book attacking Politifact.