Source
r/Adoptees•
SkinII

Need some help from your perspective

I posted this to r/adoption last night but just found out about this sub-Reddit and thought I'd probably get a better response here.

I have an acquaintance who's a young single mother of two. She got pregnant at age 15 (she's now 21) and had to get out of the relationship when things got abusive. Up to this time she was a stay-at-home mom. 6 months ago she was raped and as a result has developed PTSD and severe anxiety. She realized she could not take care of the kids properly and sent them to live with the grandparents (parents of her ex) who live in another state.

She is now enrolled in school to get her Certified Nursing Aide license with a plan to continue her education for 3 more years. At the end of the three years she planned to get her kids back. She's a very hard worker and volunteers at a local hospital. They like her and have said they'd hire her once she gets certified in a couple more months. Then she planned on working there part-time while continuing her education at night.

She was very excited to have turned her life around and working hard with the single goal of getting the kids back but yesterday got word from the grandparents that they want to adopt the kids, take her name off the birth certificates and have no more contact until the kids are 18 years old. As far as I can tell their reasoning is that the boy, who's 5, gets very upset when she comes to visit and then has to leave or when she calls and has to hang up. We feel like it's a natural response for his age but that he'll get over it as he gets older. We also feel like it will be better for the kids in the long run to have contact and visitations but we're admittedly feeling this way based on emotions.

To be honest I have no idea what's best for the kids in the long run. I'm a 63 year old male with no kids but my gut says it's best for the kids if she remains in their lives as much as possible with the plan to take them back in a few years.

It really isn't a legal issue as she's known the grandparents since she was 12 years old and knows they're good people. They are comfortable financially and give the kids a good home so moving them elsewhere is not on the table. What we're looking for mainly are the real life experiences of adoptees to get a feel for what's best for kids in the long run and compelling reasons why. If the feeling here is that no contact is best, with reasons why, we'll listen to that and be more willing to let go. But we'd also like to hear from adoptees reasons why continued contact would be best, reasons that she could give to the grandparents that would make them change their minds.

TIA for any advice/help. And please feel free to ask questions. I'm out of my element here and surely leaving out some useful info.

Update: I talked to my friend and she did talk to the grandparents today. It turns out their reason for wanting to adopt and keep the kids was mainly because they don't think they could just give the 5-year-old boy up after having him for 3 years. So for now the decision has been made for the boy to return back home. I'm very much against this just because I know my friend isn't ready for the kid to come back home. She's going to school full-time and has a part-time minimum wage job. The only way she stays at all afloat is because I've given her over $15,000 to pay for her schooling, car payments, rent, insurance, gas, food, etc. and with a kid to take care of I know there's no way unless I really eat into my savings. I tried to talk her into having the grandparents keep the kid another 3 years like she planned but it doesn't look like they'll budge on that, although I've talked her into trying again. I don't know what else to do now. I'm not only worried about her future but mine as well since I'm in no way prepared to pay for the kid but there's no way I can just let them sink.

FINAL UPDATE: Thanks to everyone who replied. I kept my friend abreast of your ideas and leanings and it helped get to a final solution. The decision is for no adoption, the grandparents to keep the son for 2 years and then my friend will take custody. It's a year earlier than the original plan but it just means we'll have a very busy 2 years getting her solidly on her feet. She's an impressively hard worker and I have no doubt she'll be ready when her son gets here. And she has no restrictions on visits, although realistically she can only afford to go maybe twice a year. So things are looking up. Thank you all for your help and support. Reddit can be a truly wonderful place!

Posted Jan 25, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC · edited

114
Averne•

So it's the parents of the abusive ex who are taking care of her children?

It sounds to me like they're incredibly biased against her, and I would not trust their opinion of "what's best" for the children. They're probably on their son's side, and who know what kinds of things he's said about her to his parents.

I'm an adoptee who is pro family preservation unless there's a compelling reason to split up a family (incest, abuse, rampant drug use, neglect, etc.).

It sounds to me like she's a caring and capable mother who loves her kids and is doing what's best. There's no reason to permanently separate her from her children.

I'd also be very concerned about the children having contact with the abusive ex. If he traumatized the mother, how is he behaving around the kids who are living with his parents?

I read through the thread in r/adoption, and agree with the commenter who recommended she get some kind of legal representation. This is a messy situation that's only going to get messier over the next three years.

I see nothing in your story that indicates she's a neglectful or unfit mother. The kids belong with her, especially if they've been in any kind of regular contact with the abusive ex.

3
SkinIIOP•

Thank you for the reply. Yes, it's the parents of the ex who's taking care of the kids and they know their son is an ass. When a warrant was put on him for domestic violence (he pushed her through a window that cut her hand badly) he took off for Oregon and is in hiding from everyone, including his parents. There is very little chance of him coming in contact with the kids.

The mother is a very good person who made some bad teenage choices. Unfortunately she was raped and tazed 5 times which left her with some pretty severe PTSD with constant nightmares and anxiety that;s required hospitalization a couple of times. That's why she knows she can't care for the kids now but has a plan to take them back in 3 years.

I have no doubts she's a great mom and will be very responsible when she gets the kids back. We're just hoping the grandparents will remain foster parents until she's ready to take the kids back in a few years.

1
Averne•

Although it may not seem like it, she needs to know that she has a lot more control in this situation than she may think. The grandparents cannot legally adopt the kids without her legal consent. She has to sign away her parental rights for any adoption to take place, and she has the legal right to decline to do so, no matter how coercive the grandparents may become.

Without knowing these kids myself, my experience as an adopted person tells me the 5 year old is probably crying because he's sad over the loss of his mother, no matter how temporary. Cutting off all contact until he's 18 will likely only make his sense of loss grow as he gets older.

I'm one of seven fully biological siblings who were separated and adopted into five different families. I grew up as an only child, but knew I had other siblings out there who I wasn't allowed to meet yet. As much as I looked forward to being able to meet them "someday," I felt really sad and lonely that I didn't have them with me while I was growing up.

I love my parents who adopted me; they're great people. But I missed my siblings terribly, even though I'd never met them. I can't imagine how I would have felt to spend the first 5 years of my life with them and then get separated for 13 years after that.

We did finally meet each other in college, and reunited with all seven of us together for the first time ever last June. I felt complete and like I could truly be myself with them.

A lot of people like to say that adoption gives kids a "better" life. In some cases, that's true. But in other cases, the term "better" is totally relative. Is it good for a kid to grow up in a financially stable home? Absolutely. Is it good for a kid to grow up in a less stable home, but with a devoted mother who loves him? Absolutely.

Is one option "better" than the other? That's a very complicated answer. My personal belief as an adoptee is that children always belong with their original families, unless there's abuse happening.

2
TheHaak•

As an adoptee from a teenage pregnancy who had no contact with his birthmother, I am glad I didn't. I didn't have any confusing ideas over who my parents were or 'the-grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side-of-the fence" feelings that some kids get when addressing which family would be best in their own mind. I know there are other adoptees who would completely disagree with me, but it's my own experience with what I had in my life. My mother might have turned out to be an awesome, successful loving woman or a strung out street walker, I don't know, but I do know she gave me the best chance for a great life and I'm grateful for her sacrifice. I don't see things getting any better with the 5 year old as he gets older, especially when the 'brilliant' teen years come along.

2
SkinIIOP•

Thank you very much for your reply. As far as I know you're the first one who's had direct experience with being adopted. I just wonder how you would have felt if you grew up until the age of 5 with a mother who wasn't a drug addict and who you knew truly loved you. The son will be 6 in March and has only lived in foster care for 6 months. The little girl is a different situation as she's only a year old and was removed when she was only 6 months old so really doesn't know her mother. Her situation might be closer to yours.

1
TheHaak•

It's hard to say. I'm in my 40's now, so I'm able to look back at my childhood with more wisdom than I had while growing up. My teenage years stunk, bad schools, not great friends, clashed with my parents, and given my own opportunity, I usually made bad decisions. I also blamed some of my ills on me being adopted, however I now laugh at my own ignorance from back then, especially as I'm raising my own teenagers. I was pretty confused as to who I was or wanted to be, and I think having any other 'parent' in my life at that time would have mad an ugly situation worse, no matter how awesome that parent was. It's through my experience as a teenager where I draw my opinion that closed adoptions are better. I had two adopted siblings, and I think they would agree with me on that too. It was only after having my own children that I realized just how much my biological mother loved me, and how hard it was for her to carry me to term and then give me up. It's something I am glad to never have had to go through, and I can't imagine how your friend feels. I never knew of a time when I didn't know I was adopted, and my parents treated adoption as a wonderful thing, so I never felt any abandonment or that I wasn't loved by my birth mother. I don't doubt that she truly loved me, never have, I just feel that I came along at the wrong time and she made a wise decisions regarding that.

I hope some others throw out their own experiences, I know they are all different for all people.

1
SkinIIOP•

Again, thank you for your reply, and for being so candid about your feelings. That can't be easy to do and I very much appreciate your introspection. I'll see if my friend will log in and read all your replies so I don't have to give her an incomplete TLDR. Thanks so much!

1
ezzyharry29•

WTF is wrong with these grandparents? Unless this version of the story is missing some seriously troublesome details, that is NOT okay. Why on earth would the grandparents think that severing ties with the mother would help the kids--even if they actually had any legal grounds to do so. What on earth would they say to the 5-year-old--we decided you can't visit with mom anymore because you get miss her when she leaves? If I were that child, and became a teenager in that household, I would be absolutely furious with my grandparents. As presented here, mom is struggling but getting on track, has the kids in a stable home, and is maintaining their relationship. Why do these grandparents think it's appropriate do deprive two children of their mother? Yes, there are situations when parental rights should be terminated. This does not read AT ALL like one of those situations. It reads like a situation where grandparents are trying to make a power play that is so far out of line...

Okay, I'm done. Trust your gut.

2
SkinIIOP•

Thanks for your perspective and it's very much what I think, too. I posted an update to my original text. It basically says the grandparents want to adopt because they do't think they could let the boy leave after taking care of him for 3 more years. So my friend has decided to take the boy back even though she's in no way ready to do that, either emotionally or financially cuz she's up against the wall. I don't know what to do or say cuz I've already eaten into my savings over $15,000 to keep her afloat and a kid might take everything. And I can't just let her sink or swim. Not sure what to do now.

2
ezzyharry29•

Ugh. I know they've made a huge commitment taking care of these kids already, so I don't want to say that's selfish...but putting their needs before that of a child they supposedly care so deeply about is...sad/bad/makes me mad.

But, looking forward and getting off this Dr. Seuss tangent: I'm not sure if this means she's taking both kids or just the brother. One thing to think about is whether she'll have much more support once the boy is in school full-time, assuming where you live doesn't have full-day public kindergarten. I do NOT want to minimize the struggles of any single parents, but I wonder if she thinks about how having him in school full-day, plus the possibility of having discounted/free after-school care, could make it more manageable than what she experienced with pre-school aged kids. Of course, there's a whole ninth months still to get through til next fall, but I'm just grasping at anything somewhat positive that may make this seem a little more doable.

But before that, if he's moving in with Mom, have her talk to the school ASAP, especially if he's going to be moving schools but even if he's not. School districts are often linked in to other services that can help families in need. For example, my school district sends many kids home with food for the weekend. If her son isn't already in school, the district may still be a resource that can direct her to other helpful programs. And if he's not in school but could be, absolutely she should see if she can get him into some kind of school program. (I'm not sure if head start goes through age 5? I've been spoiled in my area, somehow we manage universal full-day kindergarten even though the state govt is a nightmare.)

I'm sending good vibes your ways--as someone who's already seen lots of struggling families and kids very early in a teaching career, I hope you know that you are an amazing person to make yourself part of this family's support network. I wish there were thousands more friends/neighbors/"chosen family members" like you!

Edit to add, after I actually read your update: My other suggestion for you is to see if you can replace your financial contributions with time contributions, if you feel that makes more sense for what you can take on. Could you investigate local programs that help struggling families pay for heating bills? Are there any grants for school out that that she hasn't had the time to look up herself? Is she enrolled for food stamp benefits? And, if not, is she planning to apply or re-apply once there are kids in the house? Is she signed up for health insurance in 2016 (Obamacare has been sending me reminders about the Jan 31 deadline all week.)

2
SkinIIOP•

Your first paragraph is just a treasure from start to finish. Says everything I felt and included a Seussism!

Thanks for the excellent info. I've been keeping her abreast of all Reddit's replies and she took it all to heart, maybe opened her eyes a bit. But to show how on top of things she is, she already found programs that will help financially with the son, figured out where he'd go to school, etc. It just blows my mind that she comes from parents who were into meth and had them constantly on the move. She even takes care of her younger brother who's 18. Just a very impressive young woman. And there's now some very good news.

I kept her abreast of all the advice from Reddit and gave her my own thoughts. Then she called the grandparents back and got them to agree to keep the son for two more years. Yay! It's a little earlier coming back than planned but it just means we'll have a very busy two years to get her solidly on her feet. She's very driven and I have no doubt she'll be ready then. I'll add a final update to the original text but wanted to let you know since I just now found out. Reddit can be such an amazing place!!

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ezzyharry29•

That's awesome!!! Good for her!!

1
bbinwwwv•

These are also the people that raised the abusive ex, so...you know...

1
SkinIIOP•

Yeah, but in this case I don't think it's all their fault. Somewhere along the way the ex got involved with drugs and it went downhill from there. Can't really put the blame on the parents cuz I don't know what they could have done and how much they knew. I do have a final update posted with the original text if you're interested.

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