[Crow Business] You guys asked for it. We delivered! Announcing the new simpler and easier spoiler tag system.
#Important: [Spoilers all] will be officially Retired on March 1st, 2016.
#TLDR:
We are retiring six spoiler tags:
- [Spoilers All], [Spoilers Aired], [Spoilers D&E], [Spoilers RPPQ], [Spoilers TWOIAF], and [Spoilers Written].
We are introducing three new spoiler tags:
- [Spoilers Main]
- Content from All Published Novels and All Aired Episodes is allowed, but everything else must be hidden.
- [Spoilers Extended]
- Content from every Complete Product In The Marketplace is allowed as well as any Creator Interviews, Notablog and SSM that is not related to unreleased material. The only things that need to be hidden are Sample chapters and unofficial production material.
- [Spoilers Everything] -
- Everything is fair game. This includes Spoilers Extended, plus anything else (sample chapters, set pictures, casting news, and episode previews). Nothing needs to be hidden.
We are making minor tweaks to two tags:
- [Spoilers Published]
- No longer includes anything that is not published (ie TWOW sample chapters, SSMs about unpublished material, interviews, etc.)
- [Spoilers TWOW]
- The only tag other than [Spoilers everything] where TWOW sample chapters are allowed.
- No longer includes D&E, TWOIAF, etc.
We are updating out GRRM interview and SSM policy
#Links to more resources
- Venn Diagram with Dragons
- Normal Venn Diagram
- Spoiler Tag Definition
- Overall spoiler policy
- When to use no spoilers
- Common Situations
- Intended Audience
- 2015 survey data
- Tag Related Survey Data
#Why Change the Spoiler Tag System?
The spoiler system was created in 2012 and the canon universe has expanded greatly since then. As the r/asoiaf community has grown, we’ve recognized the need to overhaul the spoiler tag system to provide choices for the various groups among us. Analysis of our survey data from this year allowed us to drill down on who’s reading or watching what and where unmet needs were.
We feel this is a simpler and more flexible system which makes for easier usage among the community as well as easier moderating on our part. The new system quarantines the most dangerous spoiler material that people are avoiding: production information from the filming of season 6 and TWOW sample chapters.
The main problems this systems solves are:
-
Not enough tags at the top System was "bottom heavy" ie it provided lots of granularity as you read and get caught up to the series. However, now over 90% of respondents from the 2015 r/asoiaf survey have read all 5 novels. Additionally, with the show catching up to (and surpassing) the books, With sample chapters, set pictures, extended universe histories and video games, there are now various levels of getting "caught up." To address this, we are adding several tags towards the top of the system.
-
People want to talk about both the show and the books together There was only one tag [spoilers all] that let people discuss both the show and the books together. Discussing the show in the context of the books is easier under this new system. Given the survey data, it made sense to make this change. 79.5% of users plan to watch season 6. 70% of users will continue to watch the show even if it begins to include material from TWOW.
-
A bunch of people want to avoid spoilers from sample chapters, show production and the show altogether. The sub is about 50 50 split between people who full embrace spoilers and those who have concerns. This system allows for better segregation of the things that really ruin someone's day while still minimizing the hassle of spoiler formatting
-
The system was getting too complicated- We had too many tags. Even us mods had to check our cheat sheets sometimes if D&E material was allowed in [Spoilers RPPQ]. We've found that adding a new tag every time a new product is released is not sustainable anymore. This new system will make it easier to learn which tags work for you and which ones to avoid and our hope that there will be a lower risk of getting accidentally spoiled.
What do you mean about spoiler formatting?
Spoiler tags set the acceptable scope for unhidden spoilers in the main post and all the discussion in the comments. Any time you want to bring up material in a post that is beyond the current spoiler tag, you can do so by hiding it under spoiler formatting. Typing:
[Not really a spoiler](/s "that car has a rad spoiler")
Becomes
We aren't changing how this works. But its important refresher because when we are talking tags, we are really talking about what stuff can be unhidden in a post.
#The Retiring of [All] and the Creation of [Everything]
[Spoilers Everything] behaves exactly like [Spoilers All]. EXACTLY. If you really want to allow uncovered information from unaired episodes and TWOW sample chapters you can. All you have to do is type out a 10 letter word instead of a 3 letter word.
However, be aware that around half the user base is avoiding spoilers of one form or another so your potential audience could be much smaller.
We are removing [All] because we are afraid that users will stay on autopilot and keep typing "all" and risk spoiling themselves and others. This also provides a mechanism to inform users of the new policy if they missed the initial announcement. We have also found that some users didn't realize that [All] included some topics like production material or sample chapters. We feel like [Everything] clearly shows that, well, EVERYTHING is fair game.
#The retiring of [D&E], [RPPQ], [TWOIAF] and the creation of [Extended]
The only thing you have to cover when using [Extended] is unreleased material like Sample Chapters, unaired show material and SSM about unreleased material. The intention is that the majority the discussions from [Spoilers all] posts could be discussed using the new [Spoilers Extended].
We've found that generally people aren't super concerned about spoilers from the historical works and tend to read them in an arbitrary order.
If you want to talk D&E, RPPQ and TWOIAF, and are avoiding show spoilers, you can use use [Spoilers Published] the same as before. But if you wanted to talk the full extended universes of the book and the show then [Spoilers Extended] is probably your best bet.
The creation of a broader spoiler tag means that the mod team won't need to create new tags every time something new is released. It also means that we can include more of the universe like the game that we haven’t had an easy place for before.
Note: Going forward, our official discussion posts like Episode Discussions, Q&A Weds, Theory Throwback Thursday, Fan Art Friday, and House of the Week will all be marked [Spoilers Extended].
#The Retiring of [Aired] and the Creation of [Main]
Aired was never really embraced by the sub and is a bit counter-intuitive. In Aired, you could only talk about the show and book canon is completely excluded. Since most users want to discuss the show within the context of the books, having a show-only tag didn't really make sense. Since over 90% of our sub has read ADWD and 70% of our sub plans on watching season 6, having a place to discuss the books and show together seems natural.
[Main] is also a very good tag for newcomers to ask questions and also useful for people who are fans of the show and novels but have not gone down all of the rabbit holes of the extended universe.
The retiring of [Written] and the redefinition of [TWOW]
Written was a very infrequently used tag that allowed sample chapters but did not allow show material. We found that the demographic of users is rather slim that are ok with sample chapter but not ok with the show. So although we are retiring [Spoilers Written], [Spoilers TWOW] is the new place to go to discuss TWOW sample chapters if you are avoiding show spoilers.
Also, we are changing [TWOW] to be more like the other book tags so that extended material is not included. We are also clarifying that in [TWOW], TWOW sample chapters are allowed but TWOW samples chapters do not flow up into Main, Published, or extended.
The New Spoiler Tag System
| Tag | Discuss Freely | Hidden Under Spoiler Formatting |
|---|---|---|
| [No Spoilers] | News, sales, how to get started, etc. | Any plot points or information about grrm's story or world |
| [Crow Business] | Moderator announcements, Updates to sub policy | Any plot points or information about grrm's story or world |
| [Spoilers AGOT] [Spoilers ACOK] [Spoilers ASOS] [Spoilers AFFC] [Spoilers ADWD] | To the end of that book inclusive | Anything Show canon, sample chapters, non novel books, interviews, SSM or any other products. |
| [Spoilers TWOW] | Plot points of information from TWOW preview chapters and the first five books | Show canon, non-novel books, interviews SSM or any other products. |
| [Spoilers MAIN] | All published novels and aired episodes | Non-novel books, Episode previews, Show special features, unofficial production material, interviews, SSM or any other products. |
| [Spoilers PUBLISHED] | All finished book canon | Show canon (including books published by HBO), preview chapters, interviews, SSM or any other products. |
| [Spoilers EXTENDED] | Novels, other books, aired episodes, episode previews, apps, games, interviews, SSM, cookbooks, coloring books, other books grrm has written etc | Sample chapters, unoffical production material. |
| [Spoilers EVERYTHING] | Sample chapters, unofficial production material, Novels, other books, aired episodes, episode previews, apps, games, interviews, SSM, cookbooks, coloring books, other books grrm has written etc | Nothing |
#How will this be implemented?
We are planning on doing a one month overlap of the systems.
- New tags
- Feb 2016 you can start using them immediately.
- Retired tags
- Feb 2016 - If you post with a retired tag, your post will not be removed but you will get a message pointing you to this announcement. If you are not comfortable with all of the spoilers allowed in [spoilers all], we would encourage you to remove the post your self, and post it again with your preferred tag.
- after Mar 1st - If you post with a retired tag, your post will be removed by automod and you will be pointed to this announcement. If you repost the same material with a valid tag, you'll be all set.
#Will old posts be affected?
No. You can still see and search for posts made with the old tags.
Just be aware that if you edit an old post Automod will check the spoiler tag and remove it and send you a notification. No biggie though. Just send us a modmail and we can put it back up manually.
Where do GRRM interviews and SSM Belong?
GRRM likes talking about what's happened in his books, what he think might happen and football (but mostly football). It can be a bit tricky to figure out where things go in the spoiler system. In an effort to be conservative in terms of spoilers:
- Free to discuss info regarding TWOW without spoiler formatting-[Spoilers Everything]
- Free to discuss info regarding released plot without spoiler formatting-[Spoilers Everything], [Spoilers Extended]
- Free to discuss non plot information- [ok in all tags]
- Note: GRRM interview and SSM information may be discussed in any tag if hidden under spoiler formatting
#Help I want to stop watching the show! What do I do?
If you normally used spoilers all, you can now use spoilers published. Any discussion of the show would need to be hidden behind spoiler formatting.
#What do you mean by production info?
Pre production info is info from the filming of un-aired seasons and sample chapters from unreleased book. It must be hidden under spoiler formatting in every tag except [Spoilers Everything].
#Can I filter so I only see posts for the tags I care about?
Yes! We moved that from the side bar to the wiki page.
#What if I see someone breaking the rules?
Please please please use the report button. If you have a question, please check the wiki don't hesitate to send a modmail.
#Common Situations
When Reading Posts
| I want to avoid | OK to read | Read at your own risk |
|---|---|---|
| Anything to do with the show | Published, No Spoilers, AGOT-ADWD, TWOW | Main, Extended, Everything |
| Any unreleased show material | Extended, No Spoilers, AGOT-ADWD, TWOW, Main, Published | Everything |
| Sample chapters from TWOW or other unreleased books | Extended, No Spoilers, AGOT-ADWD, Main, Published | Everything, TWOW |
| Anything beyond the the Novels or the show | Main, No Spoilers, AGOT-ADWD | TWOW, Extended, Published, Everything |
When Creating Posts
| I Want To Freely Talk About | Allowed Tags |
|---|---|
| Sample Chapters | Everything, TWOW |
| Production | Everything |
| SSM or Interviews | Extended, Everything |
| WOIAF, D&E, Novelas | Extended, Published, Everything |
| The Show | Main, Extended, Everything |
| "On The Next Episode" Previews | Extended, Everything |
(bold indicates tag with largest demographic)
#Summary- The ~Seven Spoiler Tags
- No spoilers- All information must be hidden
- AGOT, ACOK, ASOS, AFFC, ADWD-To the end of that novel inclusive
- TWOW- TWOW sample chapters and five previous novels
- Main- Published novels and aired episodes
- Published- All complete book canon.
- Extended- Everything in the marketplace including book canon,show canon, games, apps etc.
- Everything-Nothing needs to be covered.
The mod team really took the creation of the system seriously and have been working hard for months. We really do think we've reached that happy point where cutting more spoiler tags would really hurt discussion and adding more spoiler tags would only make things more confusing.
Thanks to everyone who took our survey and has weighed in over the months as we've contemplated these changes. We hope you'll all find the new system easier to use!
-Maesters
PS. We fully appreciate the magnitude of this change. Please don't hesitate to ask questions in the comments below or send us a modmail. And please use spoiler formatting since this is a [crow business] post!
Posted Jan 31, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC · edited