Source
r/Drugs•
josiefinsta

Supplementation Guide to Stimulants

Stimulants

This is a continuation of an old post on my other account. My old post basically had just stated how magnesium citrate helped increase the euphoria and decrease the comedown of stimulants and for once, actually made them bearable. There were a few comments suggesting other things and saying to edit my post with more supplements but I knew that editing it would not get any attention. Due to this, I have decided to make a new list while I comeup on some caffeine. Remember, I am not a doctor or scientist so not everything will be completely right. Also, to an Mods, I was wondering if this could get stickied or go in the sidebar. This would be very useful and I plan on making some more for other substances. I will keep this updated.

What this list will work for :

  • Amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse, Methamphetamine, Dexedrine, 2-FMA, 2-AI and other amphetamines)

  • Methylphenidates and Analogues (Focalin, Concerta/Ritalin, ethylphenidate, Isopropylphenidate)

  • Other Stimulants (3-FPM, A-PVP/A-PHP, propylhexedrine, MDPV, Mephedrone, Methiopropamine, Cocaine and others)

  • Caffeine (Coffee, Tea, Caffeine Pills) (To a certain degree)

  • Eugeroics (Modafinil, Adrafinil, Armodafinil) (To a certain degree)

  • Entactogens (MDMA, methylone and others) (To a certain degree)

Supplementations :

These supplementations are primarily for NDRIs or Dopamine-Norepinephrine releasers. It will help serotonin releasers to an extent, but you should also look at MDMA supplementation for things such as Methamphetamine and Mephedrone. May help Caffeine and Eugeroics. Some of these will be more important than others. I tried to list them in order of importance but obviously, it varies

Before/During :

  • Magnesium Citrate (100mg/3x) or Magnesium Glycinate (200mg/2x) (Glycinate > Citrate > Oxide) (Lowers Tolerance / Prevents Jaw Clenching or Grinding / Better Sleep / Helps Anxiety / Muscle Relaxer) (Anecdotal : Helps increase euphoria and reduces comedown / Helps Focus on stimulants / Removes stimulant headaches)

  • Memantine (Prescription Only) (Reduces Tolerance / Reduces Anxiety) (Anecdotal : May help neurotoxicity of stimulants)

  • Fish Oil (1200mg/360mg Omega-3 / 1x) (Lowers Heart Rate on Stimulants / Heart support / Brain support) (Anecdotal : Makes stimulants much easier on the body / Less Anxiety / Better memory)

  • Vitamin D (2000UI/1x) (Improves Mood / Helps Cardiovascular System / Reduces Blood Pressure)

  • Vitamin B-Complex (Increases Energy and Mood)

  • ALCAR (500mg/2x) Reduces Neurotoxicity

  • R-ALA (100mg/2x) Reduces Neurotoxicity

  • L-Tyrosine (500mg / 1x) (Dopamine Precursor) (Repletes Dopamine / Mental Health Booster / Increase Mood, Focus and Motivation) (Anecdotal Experience : Took it on vyvanse comedown. Extreme euphoria was felt very similar to peaking euphoria. Lasted 30-40 minutes)

  • L-Phenylalanine (500mg / 1x) (Dopamine Precursor / Breaks down into L-tyrosine) (Repletes Dopamine / Mental Health Booster/ Increases Mood, Focus and Motivation) (Anecdotal Experience : Took in conjunction with L-Tyrosine but no change)

  • L-Theanine (200mg/1-3x) (Found naturally in Green Tea) (Very Useful in Conjunction with Caffeine) (Stimulates Dopamine / Lowers Anxiety / Relaxation) (Anecdotal : Takes edge off of stimulants and caffeine / Removes jitters / May help tolerance)

  • Rhodiola Rosea (400mg/1x) (Increases Wakefulness / Reduces Anxiety) (Anecdotal : May help memory and help caffeine tolerance)

  • Whey Protein (Anecdotal : May increase euphoria and Focus)

  • Choline Source (Will help memory and focus)

After Use Only :

  • Melatonin (10mg) (Helps neurotoxicity / Very useful for sleep after stimulant use) (Anecdotal : Lowers Anxiety)
  • Vitamin C (1000-2000mg) (Lowers neurotoxicity / Will help stimulants get out of your system faster)
  • L-Tyrosine (Stated Above)
  • R-ALA (Stated Above)
  • ALCAR (Stated Above)
  • Magnesium Citrate or Magnesium Glycinate (Stated Above)

Other useful Medications in Conjunction with Stimulants :

  • Benzos (Xanax/Valium/Etizolam) Lower anxiety / Helps comedown / Can put you to sleep / Lower Heart Rate Dangers : Stims + Benzos can lead to blackouts / Withdrawals can be fatal Very Addictive. Use sparingly
  • Benadryl (50mg) Sleep Aid / Lowers Anxiety Dangers : May increase heart rate or blood pressure Tolerance Builds fast and can be mentally addictive. Use sparingly
  • Antipsychotics Will knock you out
  • Tums/Baking Soda Will increase absorption and may extend the duration Danger : Can lead to a worse comedown or too long of a duration Anecdotal Experience : I took some with vyvanse and ended up tweaking out 20hrs. I took everything at 6AM and still could not sleep the whole night
  • Noopept or Piracetam May help focus with stimulants (Medium-High Doses may interact. Start very low if used in combination iwth stimulants)

Healthy Habits :

  • Sleep at least 6 hours a day (8 is better)
  • Force yourself to eat food and drink water or the comedown will be much worse
  • Know that the comedown will not last forever. You will feel better
  • All Nighters will just make the comedown worse and will have negative impacts on your mental health

That is the basics of this. I will try to update this post and there may be a few mistakes. Feel free to post any comments on this or ask any questions below

EDIT 1 : u/herman_gill brought up some interesting points that have been added. If you have any questions, you can also ask him. They include :

  • Taurine (Takes the edge off of stimulants while still maintaining focus and being safer a lot safer than benzos) (May Promote sleep and relaxation) (May improve mood) (May have anti-oxidant like effects)

  • Magnesium Tauarate (May be a better source of magnesium than others previously mentioned. I stand behind chelated magnesium and magnesium citrate personally.

  • CDP-Choline is said to be a good source of choline although I have no personal experience with it.

  • Although the anti-oxidant effects of 10mg of melatonin can be beneficial, anecdotally, using high dosages daily can cause short-term depression, foggy mind, and also trouble sleeping. YMMV

  • AVOID 5-HTP WITH STIMULANTS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING

  • Acetylcysteine or NAC, can be very useful in stimulant harm reduction and also acetaminophen overdose. May help addiction and have multiple benefits in combination with stimulant usage.

Posted Feb 15, 2016, 8:32 PM UTC · edited

8449
somekiryu•

Lowers Tolerance / Prevents Jaw Clenching or Grinding / Better Sleep / Helps Anxiety / Muscle Relaxer

Can confirm. Am amphetafiend.

Great list. I take a lot of these supplements.

9
pricklycats•

I take the majority of these supplements on a daily basis, so I guess I don't have much to worry about. Most of them are essential to having good physical/mental health anyway, especially if you tend to eat unhealthy food. May as well use them even without a specific purpose.

5
Wooky47•

Thanks, maybe ill enjoy vyvanse without xanax and just use supplements

3
josiefinstaOP•

No problem. As you can probably tell, this was done on stimulants and I just remembered it from before so I dug it up and posted.

I used to use vyvanse with baking soda and it made it last very, very long. Sometimes too long that even if I dosed in the morning, I could not sleep.

Instead of using xanax, I would recommend magnesium for anxiety and muscle tension as well as benadryl (on occasion) and melatonin at night.

6
Wooky47•

It may help but i get some bad anxiety on stims if i dont take a bar with it. Just feels to damn good

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josiefinstaOP•

Yeah I can see that. I am on Zoloft at 100mg and that did help my anxiety long-term but r/drugs seems to look down on SSRIs. Kava was nice for anxiety but only the root powder worked. Ive heard buspar is great long-term too.

Also, for the actual adhd med, as a last resort I would try dexedrine. Vyvanse metabolizes into d-amphetamine (which is dexedrine) but I always found that Vyvanse had a horrible comedown and made me too anxious. Dexedrine works amazingly for me

1
pineapplesunshine•

When you say you used vyvanse with baking soda, do you mean you took them at the same time? What was the dosage approximately? I've been on vyvanse a long time and have been feeling like it hasn't been as effective lately, curious as to how I could make it more potent without going up in dosage.

1
josiefinstaOP•

Yes, I took them at the same time. I took a recreational dose of 80mg (with a 4 day tolerance-break from amps) and about half a teaspoon of baking soda in water (Too much). It does tastes liek shit by the way but you can also use 2-3 tums instead which tastes better

3
pineapplesunshine•

You just eat the tums? Does it make it last longer or just more potent in general? I've been on 70mg for about four years so my tolerance is through the roof. I've been adding 10mg IR adderalls in but it isn't the same.

1
herman_gill•

Magnesium Tauarate works better, Taurine is good on it's own with stimulants.

B-Complex might not be completely warranted, but Thiamine isn't a bad bet.

Tyrosine/Phenylalanine aren't necessary if you're consuming adequate amounts of protein already (in the form of whey).

Best choline source is probably CDP-Choline for stims. Reports of it helping reducing cravings of certain drugs (like cocaine) as well, after use.

Don't take tyrosine immediately after your trip, you don't want extra dopaminergic action when you're trying to sleep. If you do take it, take it the day after. Don't take ALCAR after use either, wait until the next day. If you insist on taking a carnitine source at night, take GPLC (glycine helps with relaxation and might aide with sleep).

Melatonin after stimulant use is a great idea, but 10mg might be a bit excessive.

Things to avoid:

5-HTP, avoid the fuck out of this if you're taking stims the day of and during. If you take it the next day, take it with green tea extract (EGCG/catechins) to prevent peripheral conversion of 5-HTP into 5-HT.

Avoid mixing drugs, particularly alcohol and certain stimulants (ie: cocaine, methamphetamine).

Also probably a good idea to not dose with any stimulants after like... 9pm. Some of these drugs have a reasonably long half-life so even then they won't be out of your system for a few hours. Quite a bit of the long term detrimental effects of stimulant abuse are actually a result of sleep deprivation (and hypertension/reduced cerebral blood flow too, obviously, and receptor desensitization... but the sleep deprivation is also really bad too)

One big one you missed is Acetylcysteine for stimulant harm reduction. Probably best in the range of 1.2-2.4g/day.

Also the addition of taurine wouldn't hurt (Magnesium Taurate = double whammy).

CDP-Choline - best choline

3
josiefinstaOP•

Magnesium Tauarate works better, Taurine is good on it's own with stimulants.

If Magnesium Taurate is the same as chelated, then I believe so. As long as it is not oxide, I find any other source of magnesium works fairly well. Taurine is great too. I may add that on the list

Tyrosine/Phenylalanine aren't necessary if you're consuming adequate amounts of protein already (in the form of whey).

Very true is the whey protein contains the amino acids. There are some blends that do not contain any.

Melatonin after stimulant use is a great idea, but 10mg might be a bit excessive.

The 10mg melatonin is because of its anti-oxidant effects.

I recommended using 0.5mg-1mg if you are only interested in the sleep benefits. I have personal expereince with larger dosages (like 10mg) daily causing depression-like symptoms and I became letheragic.

5-HTP, avoid the fuck out of this if you're taking stims the day of and during. If you take it the next day, take it with green tea extract (EGCG/catechins) to prevent peripheral conversion of 5-HTP into 5-HT.

Yes, I didnt want to get into 5-htp because there are so many interactions and warnings. I was always under the impression that it should only be taken with drugs that deplete serotonin tho such as methamphetamine and MDMA

Avoid mixing drugs, particularly alcohol and certain stimulants (ie: cocaine, methamphetamine).

I find that a low dose of alcohol and methylphenidate are very euphoric. However, I do believe there is a danger but a lot of the times it is overstated. The main danger comes from a person being so stimulated that it covers up the sedative effect from ethanol, leading to larger amounts being consumed

One big one you missed is Acetylcysteine for stimulant harm reduction. Probably best in the range of 1.2-2.4g/day

Hmm, this I have heard before but never looked into. I am gonna research that right after. Thanks for the suggestion.

CDP-Choline - best choline

I do not have too much personal experience supplementing with Choline but I will be sure to add this in!

3
herman_gill•

http://examine.com/supplements/N-Acetylcysteine/

http://examine.com/supplements/CDP-choline/

There's obviously more research out there, but not a bad place ot start.

2
chrixko•

Can you explain what the problem with 5-HTP and stimulants is? I always use 5-HTP + L-Tyrosine the next day.

1
josiefinstaOP•

Certain interactions (mostly between seroternegeric stimulant drugs like meth and mdma) and also I think there was a study saying that Long-term use of 5-HTP has negative effects on the cardiovascular system. Take that with a grain of salt though as I have not looked into it

2
herman_gill•

5-HTP converts into serotonin in the peripheries, which can have detrimental effects on your heart. Better to take tryptophan and let your body sort itself out by itself.

Also while on drugs, taking 5-HTP can highly increase your chance of developing serotonin syndrome, and actually make the withdrawal/comedown that much worse.

1
Survector_Nectar•

Good list. We should remember though that taking too many supplements can be dangerous. Supplements are not regulated by the FDA and often contain adulterants or unreliable doses of what's listed on the label. The fewer you take, the better.

I'm a daily stimulant user (Benzedrex at the moment) and take the following:

Mon/Wed/Fri - Fish oil

Tue/Thurs - Evening Primrose oil, magnesium carbonate

Sat/Sun - Multivitamin

I sometimes throw zinc and selenium in the mix if there's a sickness going around, and Emergen-C is always there when I can afford a box.

2
ill_tell_my_father•

Why not fish oil every day? Do you eat fatty fish most days or something?

1
Survector_Nectar•

Meh, I do eat fish pretty often but not daily. I've heard worrying things about fish oil (something about most supplements being rancid and actually causing more harm than good).

I like to limit the amount of supplements I take in general because they're really a crapshoot. Frontline did a [good documentary] (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/) on the supplement industry recently. Worrying stuff.

1
josiefinstaOP•

Be careful with benzedrex though. It has seroternegetic properties along with strong vasoconstriction. The highest dose I would ever go if you are using it daily for a functional stim is 125mg (or half an inhaler). Even that is with a good stimulant tolerance.

1
Survector_Nectar•

Thanks. I'm definitely sensitive to ALL stimulants, so I keep the doses super low. One inhaler lasts 4-6 days...sometimes more. Hoping to get an ADD diagnosis soon so I can quit self-medicating for good.

2
josiefinstaOP•

Thats actually pretty good if one lasts 4-6 days. I recently got diagnosed with ADD too after self-medicating for a long time and dexedrine has changed me so much! Its amazing

1
Survector_Nectar•

Congrats on the diagnosis! I've been wanting to get diagnosed for years but have never gotten around to seeing a psych doc. Pretty sure I'd meet the criteria for inattentive-type ADD minus hyperactivity.

I really liked Dexedrine too, but prefer Adderall by a tiny margin. Dex felt very "serious" and Nazi-like, for lack of a better term lol. Wouldn't turn it down if it was offered to me, that's for sure.

1
roionsteroids•

You didn't read the selenium study on methamphetamine neurotoxicity?

2
josiefinstaOP•

Nope. Can you link me to it though because it sounds interesting? I didnt really want to get into methamphetamine and mdma supplementation because then I woudl have to list a lot more only for serotonin. I always assumed methamphetamine supplementation would be very similar to MDMA

2
NotSlimJustShady•

I took an adderall 30mg xr for the first time this morning to help study for upcoming tests. Without doing proper research I also took a multivitamin with plenty of vitamin c which I've now learned reduces the effects of adderall. I haven't felt any different today so far but I'm wondering if I might still get something from the second release since I haven't eaten anything today since. Does anybody know?

2
josiefinstaOP•

Possibly. Vitamin C should reduce the effects but I do not think it would completely kill the effects or absorption of amphetamines. Honestly, I would eat with amphetamines though. I always get dysphoric and my mind becomes foggy if I do not eat on them. Do you have experience with other stimulants?

1
SRS_Olympian•

You should add saline nasal spray to the list. Really helps keep your nose operational during benders.

2
josiefinstaOP•

Huh, very interesting. Ive never heard of this. Is this only for if you are insufflating stimulants or do you find it also helps if stimulants are taken orally. I have never had a problem with my nose from stimulants (including during insufflation)

2
SRS_Olympian•

Only really matters for insufflation. Particularly caustic chems like ethylphenidate will do damage to the nose over time, saline spray helps to flush out and dilute the substance.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
[deleted]•

As an infrequent meth user and a fan of stimulants in general, good fucking list m8. I use a lot of these.

1
-homunculi-•

Love your stack, man!

It's pretty similar to mine, but I recommend add 100mg Coq10 and 5mg BioPerine(black pepper extract) beforehand.

Coq10: Antioxidant with an extremely long half-life, and improves mitochondrial function.

BioPerine: Increases the bioavailability of Coq10

These supplements can be found together, and I highly recommend getting one with both.

1
TheRealSeatooth•

Hey just wondering about what you said about benzos + stims, are we talking large doses due to people taking too much causing the blackouts due to being full of energy and/or on edge, because all that combo does to me with kpin .5 mg + adderall 20 mg xr, Is that it makes me play video games all day, and get nothing done lol

1
josiefinstaOP•

Benzo Use in general. Benzos in high doses with stims will cause you to black out but instead of falling asleep, you are more likely to do something harmful to yourself or others.

It is okay to occasionally take low doses of benzos along with stimulants (and is actually an amazing combination), but it can also be more addictive. Daily use of benzos is a very bad idea but once or twice a week of using kpins and stimulants should be fine. Do not rely on benzos for comedowns though

2
Crocodille•

this is a good ass post

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
wrathwinters•

I appreciate the detail you've put into this! I'm curious though, what dose of vyvanse do you take?

1
cyrilio•

Fruit like apples, bananas, pears, oranges, etc. are easier to eat if you don't feel hungry.
Great post btw.

1
ill_tell_my_father•

This idea is so underrated, I agree perfectly. When I'm on a binge bread or similar sound horrendous but fruit don't seem so bad.

2
ill_tell_my_father•

Whey Protein

The list is very great other than this. Thanks for the post, bookmarked for a good re-read when I get my hands on some stims.

1
josiefinstaOP•

Whey Protein usually contains many amino acids on top of it being a protein source which is essential if you are not eating a large amount. It is most definitely important

2
FluffyGuffy13•

Here's a question for y'all. I've noticed that adderall has the very unfortunate side effect of making me shed more hair than normal, I'm assuming this is the result of vasoconstriction restricting blood flow to the scalp. Does anyone have any experience with this and how they manage it? It's really hard for me to get stuff done without addy, but it's terrible knowing that I'm fucking up my hairdo, which I love more than most people in my life.

1
AutoModeratorMODOverlord•

Before ascribing discomfort on psychedelics to "vasoconstriction" consider why you are coming to this conclusion.

Bear in mind that stimulants have a pleasant body feel and are known to be vasoconstricting, so we know that vasoconstriction itself is not uncomfortable.

Even in cases where NBOMes, the most notorious "vasoconstrictors", are taken in fatal or near-fatal amounts, gangrene is not seen and vasoconstriction is not the cause of death.

Before about 2013 what is often labelled as "vasoconstriction" was usually called "body load" and referred to the range of uncomfortable side effects of psychedelics which include muscular tension, stiffness and gastrointestinal discomfort.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1
josiefinstaOP•

Hmm, I have never heard of this but if this is because of vasoconstriction, you could try to switch to vyvanse or more preferably, dexedrine. Because adderall has levo-amphetamine in it, that could be the cause of hair loss.

Also, not drug related but you should shampoo once every two days instead of every day. Learned that from my mom

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
fancymeemaw•

Been taking 30mgs of vyvanse at 10am (sometimes earlier) and then 100mg 5HTP to help me sleep around 10-11pm. Only been doing that for a couple days. Is this bad?

Use to take about 3-9mg melatonin before bed but it would give me anxiety if I didn't get to sleep exactly when it kicked in and put me in a bad mood the next day as I was in that routine for about a year. Went to 5HTP thinking it was a better solution but this post made me doubt myself...

Can someone explain why 5HTP is bad or if I'm in some sort of danger? Maybe another way to get to sleep effectively after taking vyvanse?

1