02-21 21:46 - 'Yeah I wish they had interviewed more people. I would really really love to have absolutely conclusive information about the opinions of muslims worldwide. I agree that 38,000 interviews is not sufficient when talking about 1,1...' by /u/llammmmma removed from /r/europe within 7-12min
'''
Yeah I wish they had interviewed more people. I would really really love to have absolutely conclusive information about the opinions of muslims worldwide. I agree that 38,000 interviews is not sufficient when talking about 1,150 million people. They only interviewed 1200 in Bangladesh for example. I can only assume/hope that they gathered the survey candidates in a representative manner. In which case the results are still of interest. It was carried out by PEW research who I think are one of the most respected research companies.
I'm sure there is probably far better data out there but I've not come across it so far. As I saw, I'm not sure we should disregard the results completely. It was conducted by a leading research company and they must have attempted to make it representative.
Anyway, I did a quick google to see if there were any obvious alternatives but I didn't quickly find any that compared.
I found this though
[link]^^1
It's a series of different surveys. It's not really covering the same things and it's not global which is what we were looking at.
One that I noticed said that 0% of 500 UK muslims surveyed thought that homosexuality was ok.
[link]^^1 _-_Homosexuals#United_Kingdom_2
That's not really very good. It means their opinions do not come from the country (Britain) but instead they come from their religion. None of them have assimilated British attitudes in regards to homosexuality.
But for me I think it's not ok to be intolerant to homosexuals. It should not be OK for these prejudices to be promoted in any pocket of society. I'm not saying that it should be illegal to have these ideas but I think it says a lot about the intolerance of Islam and I do not see why we should be tolerant/sympathetic to intolerant people. That maybe sounds strange. But if I was gay I would not be happy to see my country opening the doors to crowds of people who would kill me if they thought they'd get away with it. Because their religion says I should be killed. I certainly think that Germans are goign to get a shock if they think that the immigrants are going to be as tolerant as Germans are.
And we know that contemporary Islam preaches many other beliefs and attitudes that are basically incompatible with modern western liberal democracies. And I don't see the religion changing to bring itself up to date. there's no reformation movement that I'm aware of. If anything I see Islam becoming more fundamentalist.
I dont think the same is true for christianity.
I know there's a lot of muslims in western countries who call themselves moderate muslims. I even saw some youtube clips of a "gay Imam" who was performing 'marriages' of lesbians in California. But this isn't islam. Muhammad would have them killed I think. Many moderate muslims seem really ignorant of what they're supposed to believe and what their opnions are supposed to be. I subscribe to r/exmuslim which often shows some of the nonsensical contradictory beliefs that some 'moderate muslims' talk about. Things like "I'm a mulsim but I don't have a problem with homosexuals".... then you're not a muslim. I think they're muslim in the same way as someone might say that I'm Christian. (technically I was born christian but I have zero belief in any god/gods)
And I dont know much about lutheran/calvinist sects. I'm not a religious scholar. I don't like Christianity, I'm allowed to say that. I was raised in a society which was just recovering from really oppressive and divisive protestant/catholic sectarian divisions (Scotland) and really I do not want to see such religious influence controlling any part of my society again. Seeing intolerant opinions in Islam, and seeing them embraced and reinforced by the Grand Mufti's and scholars make me very very nervous that Mosques should not be places with preachers. People should not be encouraged to develop these backward religious beliefs. They definitely should not be taught to people.
I like the look of Islam far less than I like Christianity and I do not see the drive to reform Islam that is necessary.
And I dont see the dilution of these beliefs either. Unfortunately in Britain we also have things called "Faith Schools". Which mean that Jewish, Christian (catholic) and Muslim schools are set up by churches, synagogues and mosques and they are funded by the state and they teach children "in a faith setting".
Its indoctrination of the next generation and it's segregation of communities and even sexes.
Richard Dawkins made a programme about Faith schools.
Heres the part where he went to an Islamic school - if you prefer to jump to the Islamic school then fast forward to 6 minutes.
[link]^^3
I saw your other reply halfway through writing this, and I agree with what you say to an extent. But I do expect that religious leaders should be of a good character. I don't want people worshipping violent paedophiles. I understand that this is a poor way to dismiss Islam and good people can interpret their religion in a positive way. but I also do not want Islam in my society the same as I do not want that kind of unscientific and frankly "totalitarian" belief systems. Any religion that you cannot leave is dangerous. We've seen things like honour killings in Britain. We should not allow these religions to spread these views. But they are part of the religion. . I should write this in a more considered way but it's getting late and I really should go to bed!
I hope some of this made sense. I'm too tired to fix it.
Nice talking to you.
edit: and then I see this
[link]^^4
'''
Author: u/llammmmma
1: w*kiislam**et*wi**/*uslim_St*t*stics
2: wikiislam.n*t*w**i*Musl**_*tat*stics_-_Homo*ex*als**nite*_Ki*g*om_*
3: https://youtu.be/X3lwa8faV9s?t=1m10s
4: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/salman-rushdie-iranian-state-media-renew-fatwa-on-satanic-verses-author-with-600000-bounty-a6887141.html
Unknown links are censored to prevent spreading illicit content.
Posted Feb 21, 2016, 9:46 PM UTC