Continuity issues

Suggestion

It's no secret Destiny's narrative is flawed, to say the least. Especially considering how deep the lore outside of the game actually is, how many stories there potentially are to tell.

That only worsens the fact that there are some continuity issues. Most players won't see this as a big deal, but to me coherence is extremely important in any story, and for new players this is probably outright confusing. I wish Bungie would consider these changes:

  1. If possible, Eris Morn shouldn't appear in the Tower until after completion of Chamber of Night. It would be a nice feature, but likely hard to actually implement.

  2. Once you return to the Tower after finishing Chamber of Night, the Dark Below prologue cutscene is played. There is no reason for this to no longer be in the game. (Storage space?)

  3. If 1. is applied, Sword of Crota mission is made stand-alone and Chamber of Night is instead unlocked after completing The World's Grave. Fist of Crota is the first mission given to you by Eris unless Sword of Crota hasn't already been completed. Otherwise everything remains the same.

  4. Fist of Crota is a Level 10 mission, but it needs a serious nerf. Sardon is nearly impossible to defeat at those levels unless you cheese in a cave, and the Thrall coming at you while your ability to jump has been stripped is no better. As it is right now, Guardians likely won't complete The Dark Below campaign until after the Year One main campaign anyway, even if it has been made possible to play them at the same time.

  5. The House of Wolves betrayal against the Queen isn't explained until it has already happened. The Reef should open to Guardians after completing Eye of a Gate Lord, as it currently does. But you should not be dropped off there automatically. The Reef should only open up on the map. At your first visit, the House of Wolves prologue cutscene is played. This is essential. Again, no reason as to why it's no longer in the game.

(You're currently dropped off in The Reef as soon as you receive the coordinates to the Black Garden portal, and without the prologue, it means the second you walk out the door, the House of Wolves have already betrayed the Awoken, you're welcome in the Reef and Petra asks you to go kill Wolves. Wat.)

I understand though that most players aren't bothered by this, and because time is money it's not worth it to go back and change things. But I still want to point these continuity issues out, because in the end I care about the Destiny universe and the story we do have...

Posted Mar 9, 2016, 1:59 PM UTC · edited

7881
Osmosae•

a good rule of thumb; When talking about game design, if your sentence starts with "it can't be too hard to......" then just stop, it really is that hard. Not commenting on your topic, just it's something that really bothers me

I mean we went to the moon in 1969, and my phone holds more computational power than the entire mission did, it can't be that hard to get there right ? Why can't I vacation on a different planet yet. Ugh, lazy scientists! /s

103
TheAxrat•

Thank you for saying what I think every time I see criticism from someone who doesn't understand how games are made

25
killthemusic828•

im debating on making a new account to upvote this comment twice.

17
Impul5•

I don't know the specifics, but I think that multiple accounts under the same IP might not work.

4
333name•

It can't be too hard to change your IP

12
Esifex•

See this is more clever than I think people realize

3
plentyofcowbell•

it's funny because of the thing

1
GasimGasimzada•

So if two people in one house use have the same external IP address, one of them won't be able to upvote?

2
Impul5•

Maybe. Might be MAC address or something. I just know that I tested it out with an alt account, and the upvotes made by the second account were only visible to that account, so Reddit has some kind of system in place to try and prevent cheating the system.

2
sc_slayerage•

That's a pretty terrible rule of thumb. Of course people will give bad suggestions occasionally, but if we can't suggest things that "can't be that hard," we can't suggest anything at all. It can't be that hard to make the ads in vog level 40. It can't be that hard to make event loot drops based on a simple table instead of the most psychologically rewarding one. You are going to have a very hard time convincing me that making srl was easy but making simple loot tables is not easy.

I guess my end points are 1. that it doesn't matter how hard something is, if it's a fantastic suggestion it's worth putting out there, and 2. Compared to what they are capable of, I am sure some suggestions are indeed relatively easy for a talented development team to implement. But, on the flip side of the coin "just because something is hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it," it's also true that just because something is easy doesn't mean you should. In any case; suggestions like this shouldn't be brushed off just because they're phrased in a disagreeable way. It would be better if continuity errors were addressed, because things like having Eris at the tower before she should be there just makes the story of your character less meaningful.

Doesn't mean it should be a priority, but it's worth thinking about for future installments.

8
djusmarshall•

This may be the single best thing I have ever read about comparisons and game design. cheers!

6
[deleted]•

[deleted]

3
chiefillinimac•

I think his point is that your suggestion isn't as well thought out as you think it is.

7
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
tenofclubs86•

So what you are talking about in point 1 is called phasing. It's really not that easy to do. The only time I've seen it actually put in place by a games company was in WoW. It was cool and something that people asked for.

It was also something of a disaster. Suddenly you could never be in the same area as your friends because they'd need to be in a different instance of the tower. You'd also make the experience vastly different for MCs and alts because the latter may not have done every quest in game to unlock Eris, the Reef etc.

7
[deleted]•

[deleted]

0
camzzz•

I'd add that even you could do it, doesn't mean you should. Sure you could make some hack to improve a feature, and it wouldn't be that hard, but you might have to add something into the code which wasn't accounted for in the original design. Its no big deal the first time, but if you keep doing it now you have horrible spaghetti code and every change introduces a new bug.

Sure they want to deliver cool feature people think up, but they need to carefully architect solutions and that can take some time and might not be worth it.

1
karimouhbiwhat does it mean to be a Titan?•

Unless we didn't :)

1
ChrisDAnimationChrisOfTheDead•

This!!! So much this!

0†

Although this is a really good point and I'd rather them spent their time on new content, it doesn't really excuse Bungie from overlooking it in the first place. Either way, great post OP!

0
NeoGeorgOP•

Thank you. :)

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

-2
DarkoD13•

January player here, didn't even know those cutscenes existed... :/

11
Mercules904•

If you try doing the missions in the order listed here, complete with cutscenes, it makes way more sense:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/47dvla/all_year_1_story_missions_strikes_and_raids/

7
ExDeuce•

They mean the prologue cutscenes for each DLC, the ones narrated by Eris and Mara Sov

2
Mercules904•

I have the prologue scenes in their respective chronological places (the links to them at least).

2
Nogha12•

Yeah, you used to be able to watch the trailers for the respective expansions from the main menu exactly like how you can watch the Taken King trailer from the Director.

2
acalmerkarma•

Same. I just now saw the HoW prologue because of this post. Things would have made so much more sense!

1
Mercules904•

Yep, I noticed all of these things when I did a play through on new account. It's very disappointing and it makes little to no sense when trying to recount the story.

I tried to go through and rearrange the story missions so they made sense, and basically you have to take the fact that TDB happens mid-way through the Vanilla campaign for it to make sense, and that House of Wolves happens immediately after the VoG, and even then the timeline still doesn't really add up. Also having the Taken running around in Patrols must be very confusing for new players.

Edit: Here was my best attempt to put them in order so it all makes sense - https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/47dvla/all_year_1_story_missions_strikes_and_raids/

6
NeoGeorgOP•

That is awesome! By just a brief look I saw some real improvement, were Destiny's story to take on a more linear approach.

2
Mercules904•

Glad to help!

2
Z3nyth007•

There's so much lore, so much potential. As a yr2 player I kinda zipped through the content to get up to date, which probably didn't help me grasp the story lines. But still, so many things in parallel, so much going on at once, I don't really know what's happened at all.

 

If Bungie want to recover a lot of lost ground, there needs to be a feature length cut scene, or some edited compilation of existing cut scenes with a few additions to flesh out the gaps. Tell the story, our guardian's journey and power shifts in the Destiny universe, from day one to TTK completion.

6
xXG0SHAWKXx•

TL;DR Vanilla: After being revived you go to the Moon because you found hive in one of the first missions. On the moon you meet a stranger who you follow to Venus. Once there you learn that there is a piece of the darkness at the heart of the black garden that the vex are gaining power from you set out to destroy it(lol heart of darkness). However you don't know shit so you go to the reef since they know where the Black Garden is. They tell you to kill a gate lord, then tell you the head is deactivated and give you the coordinates on mars for the black garden. You go to mars kill turtles and re-activate the head. This opens a gate to the black garden you go in kill the heart and then have an awkward after party at the tower.

TL:DR Dark Below: Hey a long lost guardian returns to the tower. She warns us that the Hive are trying to revive a god that we sealed on the moon some time in the past. We go about killing his swarm to stop his tribute(read as starve him). Then we kill the bitch that is creating more Hive(read as Omnigul). Finally we head to the moon to sever the gods last link to the physical world his soul crystal. Then we march into a separate dimension that he created to live forever in and we say no and kill him.

TL:DR House of Wolves: Oh no! remember those fallen the queen had well turns out they don't like being under her control. Their previous leader "escapes"(grimoire tells full story worth reading) and leads rebellion against the queen. Queen is mad tells guardians time to repay that favor i did. We track Skolas "Kell of Kells"(not really kind of a bitch) and find out that he is trying to take over fallen houses. Takes winter(pussy bitches on Venus) tries to take Devils and Kings but we BTFO of all of them. Decides vex tech is the answer. Track him to Vault of Glass stop him mostly. Climb vex spire find he has gained some control to pull Fallen through time. We say fuck that and knock him out so the queen can capture him. Queen tortures him(grimoire) and then lets us kill him in her prison. Lets us come by anytime to kill her prisoners for fun now.

Edit: if you have questions or want clarifications feel free to respond

13
redka243•

Poor skolas

5
xXG0SHAWKXx•

Yeah he has an incredibly interesting back story that most people will never know. Makes me kind of sad.

7
Z3nyth007•

Dude. You're a rockstar! Amazing recap, thanks!

2
Spicy-Diabetes•

I'm confused on the Skolas VoG part, mind elaborating a little?

2
xXG0SHAWKXx•

TL:DR Skoals wanted to use that timey wimey shit to bring his old crew back. Then they would go shoot up some Houses and bring everyone into the fold.

Skolas was trying to become the prophesied "Kell of Kells". First he did this by leading a revolt of house wolves(start of expansion), then he took over what was left of House Winter(first/second mission of expansion). After that he deployed assassins (the Silent Fang) to earth to try and eliminate his only competition the leader of the House of Kings. The Kell of Kings didn't come out of hiding but instead sent two Barons to kill the Silent Fang. We crash the party and kill everyone because the best Fallen is a dead fallen.

After this string of losses Skolas needs another way to prove that he is the fabled "Kell of Kells". He decides the best way to do that is gain access to seriously advanced technology most of the Fallen don't understand. He breaks into the Vault to learn how the Oracles work but we interrupt his study/thieving and break everything the way only a guardian can(Crota's end anybody). However, we weren't quick enough and he has it slightly figured out but he needs access to a Vex spire and gates. He does this by assaulting and climbing the Vex fortress until he reaches the top where he can access the spire and gates. Then using his new found knowledge begins to pull the House of Wolves through time from before the Reef War(Queen rekt his shit) but we stop him.

hope this helped

4
Spicy-Diabetes•

Everything makes sense now! Thank you!

2
KeeBlaydMastrRock the TRON Look•

Upvoted cuz killing turtles on Mars, lol

2
killthemusic828•

. Once their you learn that there is a piece of the darkness at the heart of the black garden that the vex are gaining power from you set out to destroy it(lol heart of darkness). However you don't know shit so you go to the reef since they know where the Black Garden is. They t

Ive beaten the destiny story 5 times in full, and countless times doing daily heroics (3 characters and 2 additional times with my girlfriend) and this post gave me a better understanding of the story than the actual game haha. thank you.

2
xXG0SHAWKXx•

yeah the story is fairly vague about motivation for any of your activities, especially in year one

3
killthemusic828•

im not one to get too involved in the story. im sure if i actively tried to pay attention i would have gotten the jist of it haha. i appreciate this synopsis though.

2
vactu•

Pretty beastly recap mate. Well done.

1
Ghgsrt•

A DESTINY MOVIE!! :D

2
Z3nyth007•

You know, I think they'd ruin a movie. Some games do amazing feature cut scenes which look far more impressive than a higher budget but cheaper looking movie. Either way, some effort to tell this story to its potential would be cool.

1
Ghgsrt•

Well we may find out how a movie would turn out considering activision wanting to make movies for all of its games. They've already made a Warcraft movie and a call of duty one is coming out in the next few years. Most likely going to make a destiny movie at some point in the future.

1
Ikken4122•

I reconcile the marred continuity by just thinking of them as alternate Vex timelines.

5
bonjourdan•

I agree these would make it more fluid. To be honest, I'm very surprised the trailers/cutscenes representing the start of an expansion don't start at the first available mission of each storyline. (I.e. Dark Below, HoW)

But seriously, why is Sardon so god damn difficult?! Was it originally intended for a fireteam or friend? I restarted my Warlock recently and was trying to play everything in order. I got to Sardon and was like are you kidding me?! How are new players doing this??

3
FactBringer•

What level were you when playing it? It came out with TBD so the assumption was probably that players are at least level 16-18 after having completed the full vanilla storyline.

2
NeoGeorgOP•

It is now a Level 10 Mission, so any previous assumptions should no longer apply... All subsequent Missions are noticeably easier.

2
billsibs•

I played it when it was a Level 24 mission with TDB. It was stupidly hard. Then I played it with a new character and was happy to see they scaled it back to a Level 10 mission, but the difficulty was still very real even though I was well above level 10.

2
psyonix•

Yeah, that is an unnecessarily hard fight. I remember I went through it on my Titan that I leveled up through TTK content. Pretty high level/light level, and he still rekt me a few times. I can't for the life of me understand how I was able to beat him the first time with my main when The Dark Below first dropped.

3
FactBringer•

The Year 1 story was duct-taped together twice: once when the original story was scrapped before release and the new story was written literally to recycle the encounters they had already tuned for the original story; and once at the start of year 2 when it was converted to the quest system. It's no surprise that it would have some issues like this given the history.

Yes, things are rough around the edges at points, but that's what happens when you convert a story from one format to another. Most of the decisions you are complaining about were likely made due to UI limitations, and as noted in comments here that shit ain't trivial to change, and not worth the time/resources just for a few relative edge cases.

3
Barlowito•

I think it's worse that we don't have any in game reason to go to the Vault of Glass.

Besides (former) sweet loot.

3
vactu•

We do.... If you've read a bunch grimoire that comes with doing VoG. :/ They at least told us why for Crota and Oryx, but their best raid is silence on all fronts. Zero in game dialogue except a passing mention that it exists.

3
icky-vicky95•

I agree. If bungie want destiny to still be successful before and after the release of the sequel, they need to improve the order of the story, the various quests are too broken apart now for the whole story to make much sense. I can't imagine it being a very exciting experience for new players if they don't understand what's going on in destiny's story.

2
B1g7hund3R•

This is one thing year 1 players like me wouldn't notice. From what you say here, it sends like the quests are a little jumbled up.

2
Stcloudy•

Links to these trailers?

2
NeoGeorgOP•

The Dark Below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KfmM-tZS4o (Watch after Chamber of Night.)

House of Wolves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPg3jWn6Nn0 (Watch after Eye of a Gate Lord or The Black Garden.)

3
Fervis•
2
mrearlgraytea•

Honestly, I think it's safe to say that Bungie has disavowed Year One, and Taken King is the type of game they want people to expect going forward. They had Nolan North re-record the Ghost lines for consistency's sake, but they've really not made any attempt (outside of quests) to direct people to Year One stuff.

Heck, they even included a boost with Taken King so you could skip to level 25 and bypass all the old stuff.

2
karimouhbiwhat does it mean to be a Titan?•

tTK was a step in the right direction, but it's still lacking big compared to other games (good ones); One of them being Bungie's own Halo series.

2
WutheringBytes•

I wish they would fix everything you have listed. If not now, with the the Fall update. Seriously, it would be nice for new players and old alike to finally be able to play the story in a coherent manner. TTK was a huge step forward and these updates would be the finishing touches.

2
NeoGeorgOP•

Yeah... It's a shame backtracking is seldom prioritized. As important as making progress and moving forward is, I'd love if Bungie picked up all loose ends and left behind something "finished" before moving on to Destiny 2. :)

3
crymsonnite•

I really don't know why they got rid of 2 cutscenes that explain the whole DLC story lines, there is no story without the story cutscenes, its just missions for no reason

2
DlanorKnox•

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather have the team that do the story missions just go work on a raid instead, I dont think there's alot of people who care for more story missions, I think TTK had too many of them, same with house of wolves (I mean seriously, one strike?) I'd rather have 1 good strike than 5 completely meh missions that I'll only do when the daily for it rolls around.

2
DrNO811•

This is a problem inherent with all MMORPGS - they have to have old content for new players and since it's a cooperative environment, it creates story consistency issues.

It would be incredibly difficult for a game to handle this well, but the day they develop a game that evolves and generates content on the fly and is in the RPG style, that's the day I probably stop functioning properly in the real world.

Incidentally, No Man's Sky is a very promising game in this respect, but not a genre that I particularly enjoy.

2
NinStarRune•

Sardon's always been very difficult to solo. If you don't burn him down immediately, it gets rough very quickly.

1
modrup•

The wolves betrayal cutscene was my favourite in the game.

The reef is now open...

1
TheDrock21•

Welcome to Y2...Where Y1 is really just there to be there. It's not even necessary anymore. Just buy a booster and jump straight into Y2...I feel betrayed by this actually. I hate that it seems like all the stuff we did and worked for is just brushed under the carpet and ignored...

1
karimouhbiwhat does it mean to be a Titan?•

Just buy a booster and jump straight into Y2...

You mean that $30 purchase that makes the already barebone game have even less meaningful content? Great advice indeed...

2
TheDrock21•

What? Are you serious? How did any of that sound like advice? Or anything Positive at all?

1
karimouhbiwhat does it mean to be a Titan?•

I didn't think I needed the /s. Guess I was wrong :)

1
TheDrock21•

It doesn't help that I am just super on edge right now. I honestly can't tell if it was jokingly or insulting...

1
karimouhbiwhat does it mean to be a Titan?•

Nice catch. But tbh, no amount of small changes would makes the in game story any less abysmal than it is right now.

There needs to be a radical narrative direction change in Destiny 2 to do justice to the superb lore (ie. grimoire) and finally live up to the Bungie standards of old Halo days.

1