Source
r/Turkey•
SubtleObserver

Hello, Turkish Citizens, what is the current state of freedom of speech and freedom of the press in Turkey?

Question

I'm an American who visited your country in 2012. In the past 4 months I've heard a lot of outrages acts your President has done that attack the press, journalists, and jeopardize your general freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

So what is the current situation going on in Turkey right now?

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

Also, what is the state of your tourism industry? I heard it took a nose dive.

Edit: I generally feel, in hindsight, that I made the right decision to visit Istanbul in 2012 rather than wait.

Posted Apr 7, 2016, 12:47 PM UTC · edited

438
newuss9922•

week ago i kritisize government opression

hear a knok on door, is sekret police

they rape wife, take son to gulag

tell me I hallucinate from malnourish, is no opression

then give me potato, so now i vote erdogan

13
ipitopipito•

One day, hear knock on door.

Man ask "Who is?"

"Is potato man, I come around to give free potato"

Man is very excite and opens door.

Is not potato man, is secret police.

8
KhazarKhaganate•

hahaha

I told them to show identityfication

dey told me, is all good, dat dey are best secret polees 2nd to none.

I told them no, I dont have lawyer present.

den dey said OK, no identification but no lawyer if accept 50 ruble bribe.

I accept deir 50 RUB bribe, dey den take me to gulag to farm potato

3
Kapitan_Potato•

So what is the current situation going on in Turkey right now?

I'm too lazy to answer that question because the answer is too long.

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

No, the opposition newspapers are still running and they're still criticizing the government.

Also, what is the state of your tourism industry? I heard it took a nose dive.

Monthly tourism receipts are down by 10% compared to last year so it's not that bad, but it's not great either.

12
elwa7shtürk siyaseti komedi•

So what is the current situation going on in Turkey right now?

political chaos. everyone has a beef with everyone. before I get to that, let me make sure you understand how politics affect the social atmosphere in Turkey first: First of all, many segregate themselves and only deal with people with whom they share the same political views. people, even though their dress-code etc. might hint at it, do not air their political opinions in public. for example, an AKP voter would consider a CHP voter a genuinely evil traitor to the nation and vice versa. even compared to the states (where same type of rhetoric is pushed on your mainstream medias) it's a much more polarized environment. people really hate each other. to properly understand why it's gotten to this point you'd have to read some modern Turkish history first.

to give you the simple version:

AKP voters hates everyone (CHP, MHP and HDP) but gets along with MHP to some extent

CHP voters hates everyone, mostly AKP

MHP voters, too, hates everyone, but mostly HDP

as for HDP voters, they probably view CHP in a good light (sometimes) and hate the rest.

So to summarize, when you have so many fractions who all consider each other traitors and enemies of the state, you are gonna have a pretty messed up political platform. this transcends to daily life and behavior as well.

beyond the political stuff, we have problems with PKK terrorists carrying out bombings all over Turkey (mainly the capital) and ISIS targetting tourists. this obviously hurts the tourist flow and income. the whole ordeal with russia also damaged the tourism sector (russian tourists are a big source of income in some parts of Turkey).

then you have Erdogan whose "them and us" rhetoric only serves to douse the fire with gasoline, helping to greaten the divide even more. him and his party and their nepotistic approach to everything, coupled with an incompetent opposition really makes it a clown festival at times.

continuing, we hear about new casualties every second week, where half a dousin young soldiers are killed in the east in the operations conducted against PKK strongholds. this is slowly becoming the norm in Turkey, which goes to show how fucked up the situation really is.

then we have over 2 million (registered) refugees who, at the moment, weigh greatly on the economy. on top of that, european bureaucracy and businessmen-like approach to the refugee problem, have managed to make it seem justifiable to deport syrian refugees to turkey from europe, as if we are somehow responsible for them. we're effectively their trashcan.

there is more but this will do justice for now. we're in trouble, but we've been through worse.

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

No, never was. We never had the European version of "freedom of speech" either. That said, the European model is often used to forward all kinds of insane agendas, so it's not like I personally view it as something amazing. Also, it is highly characterised by the "your freedom ends where mine begins" mentality. Example: Right wing parties in EU condemn muslims for protesting some random shit that they found offensive, yet have no problem calling for the censorship/banning of articles mocking their ideas and party members in the same fashion the next day. Hypocrisy is the word here.

Anyway, we just have a bunch of retarded laws that the government is making good use of. Mind you, our press can be really misinforming at times too (doesn't justify arresting and shutting down the entire network obviously) our main problem isn't so much sensationalist journalists getting screwed over, it's more the censorship and how easy it is for the government to pass these rulings (thinking about websites here)

Also, what is the state of your tourism industry? I heard it took a nose dive.

Nose dive is an exaggeration. but it did make a visible dent on the tourism sector, no doubt about that.

edit: wording

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gelerli•

you are free to say whatever you want as long as it is pro-government

6
SubtleObserverOP•

So that meme comparing President Erdogan to Gollum would fall under that category of anti-government?

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KhazarKhaganate•

Erdogan makes a faux distinction: "Insult is not criticism" in order to punish his critics.

He uses the courts, prisons, blackmail, and police to force his critics and journalists that are against him into submission. He's even used terror laws and fake evidence against Turkish military officers who were unfriendly to him. He was deathly afraid of a coup, so he infiltrated the Turkish military and put his own man into the Joint Chiefs to make sure that cannot happen anymore. Military officers believing democracy to be stable, simply resigned in protest, and gave up all their power only to be replaced by Erdogan-yes-men.

Erdogan has used the tax system, fines, lawsuits, and other methods to force almost all the TV stations that are against him, off the air. Replacing them with his own organizations to control previously anti-AKP media outlets and newspapers.

Erdogan has basically copied Putin's game plan who has done the same to Russian media.

Once you control all avenues of information, including sometimes shutting down twitter, and arresting twitter users who tweet about protests, you have yourself full control of a democracy (even if the votes were counted legitimately, though there are suspicions about that too with reports of ballot stuffing).

The importance of the 1st amendment in the US cannot be expressed enough (P.S. Trump suggested opening libel laws in the US to sue journalists who write "negative stories" and "hit pieces" about Trump).

He has also replaced judges all over, due to a lack of lifetime appointments in Turkey. He had gained all this power by working with a cult (which operates as a spy agency) called the Gulen movement (Cemaat/hizmet). But then the Gulen movement and Erdogan fought against each other (so he used the actual Turkish spy agency along with the police) and he had to replace 1000s of judges and police to purge Gulens' men from the ranks of the government. The Gulen people now regret ever using the police and courts to destabilize the Turkish military. Many of them went into hiding and/or just don't identify as Gulen's movement anymore.

Turkish politics is a lot more vicious and volatile than politics in most other countries.

2
gelerli•

it was only pointing out the similarity of the facial expressions, which is a fact, its not photoshop, its not a poem, and its objectively funny. And if you look elsewhere, everybody is making fun of everything, jesus is made fun of on a daily basis in christian countries, every president everywhere is made fun of at some point, its normal...

1
SubtleObserverOP•

What is your opinion of Erdogon trying to get this German comidian arrest/whatever due to a joke or insult the guy made against him?

1
gelerli•

i think he is overreacting as he always did in similar cases, both in the press and regular people. he sued without exception, and i think this is partly due to his base of voters are not tolerant as well as his character flaw. this could probably make him sue me too.

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PruswaSizi içimize aldıq vie sizi iyitemediq•

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

That would be an exaggeration but you can still lose your job and face imprisonment for making maymays about Erdoğan.

3
SubtleObserverOP•

can still lose your job and face imprisonment for making maymays about Erdoğan.

I must that is really really sad and unfortunate.

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Cyntar•

Have you ever read a book called 1984?

2
SubtleObserverOP•

Of course. I read it in high school and I think almost all young Americans have read that book in high school.

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mrtfr?•

You can think Turkey as a modern 1984.

1
candagltrNe mutlu Türküm diyene!•

Isn't every developed country a modern 1984. What is the difference between NSA spying on us citizens and the TVs with cameras in 1984.

3
KhazarKhaganate•

No, it's not standard reading in high school in the US.

Turkey is basically an authoritarian state that used to be a thriving secular democracy.

Just goes to show you, once a narcissist like Erdogan comes to power, he can change the legal system, make a revolving door of politicians and judges until he's paid off everyone, and use the police to blackmail anyone else in power, and then infiltrate the army all the while pretending to be about democracy, until you've achieved full power.

Your laws in your country DO NOT MATTER until a narcissist is elected and totally changes the country from the ground up. All that matters is your vote in a democracy, nothing else matters.

Even a constitution can be overwritten or re-interpreted in a twisted way if you make the wrong choice in your vote.

It's not exactly like 1984, but pretty similar and it can happen anywhere as long as you weaken the strengths of your democracy and allow an infiltrator or narcissist crazy person into office.

1
Leatra-v2•

So what is the current situation going on in Turkey right now?

Can you be more specific?

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

No, it's not that desperate. But that's where we are headed.

Also, what is the state of your tourism industry? I heard it took a nose dive.

Hopefully it will get even worse. I hope tourism industry crashes to the ground. Maybe it will teach them to treat their customers as humans.

2
SubtleObserverOP•

Maybe it will teach them to treat their customers as humans.

Well I for one made the mistake of going into the Istanbul Grand Bazaar and man are those sellers annoying as fuck.

3
alexfrancisburchardMecidiyeköy/İstanbul•

If you've lived in a big American city it's no different than dealing with green peace petitioners or others. You just learn to ignore it and enjoy your shopping (or you go to other parts). I lived in Chicago so I got pretty used to people harassing me on the street for Their bullshit, it's easy to ignore now.

3
cozbeyremove akit•

One of those so called opposition newspapers just censored newly anti-AKP article.That's the status of freedom of speech in Turkey,on the other hand pro-AKP thugs are actively targeting opposition politicians by attacking them(physically).

2
Aii_Geeerdogan shill•

is k

It's a bit of a hit and miss. Basically:

If you criticize top government officials on social media or whatever, nothing will happen.

If you swear at them on social media, there's a good chance nothing will happen but there are one too many cases of people getting arrested and put on trial because it is a criminal offense to insult any person.

If you were to go on Twitter with an account that had most of your personal info (full name, city where you live) and insulted a government official by actually tweeting DIRECTLY TO HIM, I would actually be worried for you.

As for the media:

If you're critical of the government and have ties to Gulen, you're fucked.

If you're extremely critical of the government but have no ties to Gulen like Halk TV, it will be hard for you because no one will want to give you ads so you will have difficulty with revenues and the government will probably harass you here and there with some legal obstacles and fines.

If you're moderately critical, nothing will probably happen.

So Turkey is comparable to countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Russia, Ecuador. You will see a lot of people be extremely critical of the government and take part in mass protests, and for the most part nothing will happen to them. As or the media and journalists, you might get legally prosecuted you might not, it's a hit and miss. Right now the government is going after organizations with Gulen ties

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mrtfr?•

Freedom speech? What is it?

1
FaufiffonFec•

Is freedom of speech effectively dead in Turkey?

As some users have pointed out already, 'freedom of speech' in Turkey never was the same thing as it is in other democracies. With that said, no it's not dead but it's definitely on a bad path. For instance, a couple of comments in this thread could easily be considered an insult to Erdogan or even worse an act of treason. That is scary yes.

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0
ququ2•

it is better than USA where one can not know what to think because of all the "sarcastic" misinformation out there. Stop going to reddit to get biased information and research for the truth elsewhere.

-1†
SubtleObserverOP•

it is better than USA where one can not know what to think because of all the "sarcastic" misinformation out there.

Ok that is complete bullshit.

6
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
_Whoop•

mmm köşeli

2
Leatra-v2•

lol that was an unexpected reference

2
KhazarKhaganate•

Not true at all.

Information pollution is a problem everywhere, but a lack of information and propaganda is very damaging in Turkey.

1