Source
r/poker•
MaxAddams

"I'll call that."

Discussion

Player A bets 500, Player B goes all-in for 120, Player C points at Player B's stack and says "I'll call that."

Assuming no forward motion of chips, this is a verbal commitment to call 500, right? Or did he save himself with "that" and a finger point to only calling 120 if he decides to fold? Or could he get the option to throw in 120 and fold? (Edited for clarity, though the majority seem to agree that he's in for 500)

In the hand in question it didn't matter, since C was happy to call 500, so we didn't even call the floor, but it seemed worth asking anyway.

Posted Apr 17, 2016, 10:26 PM UTC · edited

1029
WHOtfAmI420•

If he calls anything at all it must be the 500. Can't just call part of the bet. He must call the whole 500 or fold. 120 from each player (plus blinds) go into the main pot, and that is all player B can win. The remaining 380 from both players A and C goes into a side pot that they can keep betting at and whoever has the best hand of them wins that pot. Players A and C can win all of the money on the table. Player B can only win the amount he could cover.

10
DatGrag•

Lol is this a troll? Is there literally anyone on this entire sub who doesn't know this?

1
mason52301•

I'd be surprised if someone said yes, and then I'd immediately want to play some poker w/ them

1
Touch_Of_Red•

Yes, him saying that he will call the bet means that he is obligated to call the bet. The bet he is facing is 500.

9
jean_baptiste•

This. Verbally stating call means you are committed - "I will call that" is a statement. He can always muck/fold his cards, but he has to put in the 500

1
mrpine092679•

the bet is 500. so that is what he has to call to play. not the 120

8
cobwebscavernSky Poker Nitball•

As agreed by most the bet the player is facing is 500 and Player C has to cover that given his binding verbal declaration.

The sub-argument that seems to be developing is if the player (if unaware that there was a pre-raise to the 120 all-in) should get the option to recoup some chips and only lose the 120 to the pot if he didn't want to call the 500.

Seen the exact same scenario a while back in casino and actually asked the TD about it.....he held the guy to the 500 bet (was more in my scenario but lets use the same numbers to keep it simple) because it was a verbal declaration.

TD's words - It's the players responsibility to keep up to speed with the game and they always have the chance to ask the dealer what their options are in any position before playing. Given the clear, positive verbal declaration it is binding.

I asked then when that might change and he said - If the player had put in 150 or 200 in chips then it might be the case that the player had not been aware of the raise before the all in, he might consider allowing the player to cover the 120, who would then having the option of covering off the remaining 380 if he wanted to stay in the hand otherwise player C would forfeit his 120 and his hand would be folded.

He did say that he would have to be convinced that the player was not angle shooting and it was a mistake and he would take previous conduct and the dealers word into consideration before making a ruling.

1
BerryGuns•

He has to call 500, top comments are incorrect

1
BobLeBoeufOmaha H/L> Holdem•

Verbal declarations are binding. Saying "I call" always means you have to call the bet you're facing. If he said "I call $120", then since there is no $120 bet to call, a floor could rule nothing is binding because calling $120 is not an option. Saying "I call that", the floor should rule he's in for $500 or his stack if it is less than $500.

1
DatGrag•

Is there a difference in saying "I call" vs. "I'll call" though? The guy didn't say "I call." Not saying there is a difference, just asking.

1
BobLeBoeufOmaha H/L> Holdem•

Depends on context. It really varies.
I never say i call in case i make a mistake. I could see a floor siding with the player who says "i call 120" when faced with a bet of 500, and making them only forfeit the 120 or call the full 500. If you say ill call or i call and nothing else, you are obligated to call the hoghest previous bet or go all in for less.

1
riptaway•

I think most judges or tournament heads would rule this a call of the 500. Someone saying any variation of "I call" is a call of the bet, which is 500

1
riptaway•

He called. The bet is 500. Ezpz

1
ValcanGaming•

Seen similar things happen a lot in tournaments, usually means anything they put in the middle is in the pot and can then either muck or put in the rest.

In cash games they usually just let people take it back and fold if someone tried to call not realizing someone raised

0
Tunafishsam•

This is a grey area where you're going to get different answers with different floors. If there's no evidence of angle shooting, I suspect many floors would let the caller pull his chips back.

-4
NickRickis a fish. HEY WHO PUT THAT THERE!•

i would disagree. he called. its not a legal move to just call the 120, so call "that" should be interpreted as call. say me and you are on the flop, with no prior action, if you raise to 100, and i say raise to 125 total, with enough chips to raise more than that, i would suspect the floor would hold me to my raise. and i would be forced to bet 200.

5
nameschmame•

I've seen some floors rule where the 120 has to stay and player still has option to fold and surrender 120

1
NickRickis a fish. HEY WHO PUT THAT THERE!•

thats crazy. that is about the last ruling it would expect, because its the only one that couldn't happen with in the rules.

2
nameschmame•

I see that ruling a lot at the casinos I play at. Another example is where someone straddles and a player throws in 2 not realizing there was a straddle, floor is called and they say the 2 has to stay..same with any other raised flop where a player throws in 2 (or whatever the BB is for the game) and it has to stay.

1
MaxAddamsOP•

That was the argument I was hearing, I should have worded it better. I doubt there's any situation where he could "take his chips back".

1
Diamondsfullofclubs•

No reason for you to be down voted. Any reasonable floorman would assume the person calling made a mistake, didn't see the 500$ bet and get a warning. There's a lot of grey area rulings in poker and sometimes what best for the game isn't having some ridiculous rule Nazis like the people in this sub.

2
MaxAddamsOP•

It was probably the "pull his chips back" part that got him downvoted, since there's no way he's not putting at least 120 in the pot.

But it wasn't me who downvoted, so idk.

1
Touch_Of_Red•

So if you were a floor, and someone at a table said "I call" and then after gauging the reactions of everyone else in the hand and possibly after seeing the other player's hands decided he in fact did not want to call, you would allow him to not call? Seems like a terrible rule and you'd get your local gaming commission called on you your first day of the job.

1
Tunafishsam•

There's strict/most-correct ruling. Then there's the ruling that many floors will give.

0
Touch_Of_Red•

No. That's wrong. Many floors will use the actual rules of the game because they want to go by the letter of the law so that people can't get angry at them for using discretion which may favor one player over another AND to avoid allowing people to angle.

1
Diamondsfullofclubs•

No. If I were a floor and someone pointed at a bet and said 'I'll call that' not realizing that was a shorter stack calling all in from a much bigger bet, then immediately realized he made a mistake and said he didn't know there was a bigger bet out there, and my dealer acknowledged that he too thought it was a mistake, then I would give that player a warning.

If he said only 'I call', or had time to gauge peoples reactions, my dealer would let me know and I would make the call stand.

If cards were flipped over I would always make the call stand because being fair to the other player who's already shown his cards is more important than forgiving a mistake by another player.

In a recent similar event the floor was called over after a short stack threw his last 20$ in, a big stack announced all in for 700$, and another player at the table who did not hear the all in threw in 20$ worth of chips. Throwing even one chip in at the casino I regular commits that's player to a call. The floor came over and did not commit the player to calling the 700, but the 20$ stayed in. This is because there are grey areas in the rules, and the number 1 rule of any casino is that the house may overturn any other rules. You do this so you don't alienate potential long time customers for making silly mistakes. And no, gaming commission was not called.

0
Gnarzzayeeeyaa!•

It's a slippery slope when the floor is allowed to interpret clear rules that everyone is expected to follow.

1