r/TheDao•
chaindata

SplitDao - Taking Your ETH OUT

There still continues to be no clear details on how this is done. Lot of pontification, lot of guessing, no step by step instruction so far. At first general easy peasy lure information was provide "just call split dao, make yourself a curator, select any period to vote yourself in as curator, once as curator, just transfer your eth to a new dao and out" . Sounds simple enough and the dao grew by leaps and bounds.

Then it slowly trickles out that you need a minimum of 1 week to vote yourself to be the curator of your own dao in order to instruct it to send your eth out. Now coupled with the short overall proposal time to vote in the main dao of two weeks, one has to be fully aware of this and not leave it to the last minute to get your eth out.

But now it looks like the time frame is even longer. now it is coming out it takes 27 days to create your own dao, the same cooking time the main dao is taking.

This is another step that is not clear to anyone.

So if accurate and true it is 7 days to vote yourself to be the curator + 27 days for the new dao to cook and only then can you remove your eth.

This has to be cleared up very very quickly before panic ensues.

Everyone is under the impression it is min 7 days, now it appears min 34 days. You eth if you do not wish to participate any longer will be tied up for 34 days before you can remove them.

Lets go through the written steps to make sure this is the case or not the case:

https://github.com/slockit/DAO/wiki/How-to-split-the-DAO/5aaf1991776b1bb5b50389c00fa6c9f622ed2954

step 1.

In the case a single token holder, or a group of token holders, does not a agree with decisions by the curator and following proposals to a certain address, he can split off the original DAO to a new DAO.

step 2.

In order to initiate a split, a token holder needs to create a proposal ..After the debating period, which is at least 1 week, the token holder can then call the function splitDAO

step 3.

The first token holder calling that function for this proposal will automatically create the new DAO. ... After this process, the portion of the ether and the portion of the reward token belonging to the send of the transaction are moved to the new DAO. Finally, his DAO tokens are destroyed.

step 4.

The new DAO which has been created will now go through the same 27 day creation period as the original DAO. This is the time for every token holder who has voted on the proposal to join the new DAO by calling splitDAO

step 5.

After this time the new DAO is fully functional, and the curator can add addresses to the whitelist and proposals can be created, be voted on, and executed

tl;dr

if you don't want to participate in the main dao any longer, you call a proposal, in the proposal you call for a new curator, you call yourself, the curator, you have to vote yourself to be the curator it it takes 7 days to do that, once you are the curator, you can create a new dao, and transfer your tokens in to it, this new dao you created must mature for 27 days, before you can give it instructions to transfer your eth out.

Say it ain't so :-(

Who knows if is this 100% accurate??? Surely there is a setting to shorten the 27 day time for the newly created dao to become live where you can instruct it to transfer your eth out? If not wow everyone is in a world of shit 34 days locked in the new dao before you can remove your funds.

Posted May 10, 2016, 7:20 PM UTC · edited

1637
umib0zu•

I'm actually still reading the whitepaper so correct me if I'm wrong, but can't I freely give my DAO tokens to anyone on the Etherium network? In a sense, I can basically sell my stock to anyone. Also, let's not forget this low liquidity is generally better than what you get with vesting options in a shared stock company. I literally cannot sell my stock options to anyone until my company IPOs, as in there is zero liquidity. This lack of any liquidity is why the DAO is designed. If you need liquidity less than a month, you shouldn't be investing in stocks because clearly your risk is too high.

6
chaindataOP•

Yes you can start trading the tokens immediately after the sale. But as I say, who is going to buy it one day after the crowd sale when they could have bought it themselves the day before. Unless value is created or perceived to be coming when no more tokens are being created.

Yeah forget about cashing out due to rent or lunch money. How about the eth price goes up to 100 dollars on May 10. You can't cash out you have to sell your tokens which still have no added value yet. Even worse, say May 10 eth hits 100 dollars, and May 11 slock.it submits there take it or leave it proposal, and the dao rejects it out right and never has contact with slock.it again. How much do you think people will be prepared to pay you for your token despite the high price of eth, with now no proposals of any kind even being discussed in the near or distant future.

2
umib0zu•

Probably nothing, but I'm ok with this. Marginal utility of the dollar is at play here. If I really do feel like TheDAO is too risky of an investment because I feel like I need to liquidate in less than a month, I don't invest in TheDAO.

4
chaindataOP•

yup, that is the other half of the point as pointed out to the other guy.

The sudden surge or continued flow of funds into the dao was a result of many people being told that they can get a refund no matter what. Once everyone heard this they jumped aboard. At the same time many also asked for details of the refund. All answers given by self-proclaimed experts all answers given by the creators of the dao omitted any information about a time frame. Just that yes indeed you can get a refund it is simple, do this do that then do this, and so everyone continued to throw money into the dao.

Now if from day one when it was explained that you could get a refund, it was explained that yes you can get a refund but it takes 34 days to get it, how many people would have blindly thrown in money into the dao and others continue to do so? This critical lock up period of 34 days appears to me to be an intentional omission. This is the issue I have.

1
umib0zu•

To me that just sounds like bad investment research. The whitepaper does explain how a refund can be distributed, and it mentions it takes time (at least a week for a split, and designation of a new curator, and a proposal to refund which is at least 2 more weeks). TheDAO contract seems to not implement a way for someone to immediately refund, so by putting money into TheDAO, you're asserting you understand this.

5
chaindataOP•

Here's a prime example of what I have been saying.

https://forum.daohub.org/t/how-do-we-get-our-eth-back-from-dao-tokens/749/10

This is a representative of the creators of the dao, answering when asked how do you get your money back. This simple version without any reference to a critical lock up period is all that anyone knows till now.

"""To do that we had to enable “Splits.” The way Splits work:

1.Any DAO Token Holder (DTH) can create a Proposal to request a new Curator. In the case of a private split they would name themselves as the new Curator (but this can also be done as a new open-to-the-public DAO Creation).

2.The DTH would vote for their own proposal.

3.They will call the function SplitDAO() and split The DAO.

4.Their old DAO tokens will be destroyed, the digital assets that the old DAO tokens represented will be moved to the user’s new personal DAO where they control 100% of the new DAO tokens to do with what they wish. (Including sending their ETH to an exchange if they desire).""

1
jeffanthonyfds•

If you are speaking from the position of token holder of The DAO then it is YOU who decentrally are The DAO. It is YOU who did not inform the others that YOU allowed to invest in YOUR state-of-the-art managed account that YOU would not have liquidity for a few months.

Since you seem to be complaining about the amazing innovation allowing you to get your Ether back I hate to bust your bubble but there was a second innovation here you'll appreciate less. People used to crowdsale new blockchains. Tokens are instant. You sometimes had to wait nearly a year to get your slice.

That being said I bet selling on an exchange would net you the most.

1
GloomyOak•

34 days locked in the new dao before you can remove your funds.

It's actually 48 days. 7 days for split debate time, 27 days for new DAO to mature, 14 days for regular proposal debate time. If you buy tokens today, add 17 days for current DAO to mature. You will not see your ETH for at least 2 months.

6
Bitoshi•

And people gave me so much shit for saying its best to wait until the last day before 1:100 ratio changes.

4
chaindataOP•

lol well it is some fsk up logic for sure, think about this:

so your eth bought tokens in the dao, creation day is over and you urgently need funds

tokens are now available to trade, because you cannot get your eth back in less than 34 days, you better hope that the tokens that are now tradeable remain on par and more importantly someone actually wants to buy them

why would they want to buy them immediately after creation day?

no proposal has been submitted or even voted on yet. there is no value created to the main dao in order for some one to buy the tokens. yet.

so what do you do. you need cash fast.

if you call split to remove your eth you burn your tokens and your eth is only available in 34 days.

you now need to wait to see if the value of the tokens in crease from the submission of the proposal. And the value of the token may only rise if the proposal is accepted, which then interests people to buy your tokens to get into the dao.

but you need to decide what to do 1 week before the vote about the proposal is decided. Coz it takes you 1 week to become the curator in order to move your eth out. So you have to decide then if to transfer out and burn your tokens in order to get your eth out in 34 days, or hope and pray based on the submission only of the proposal, the tokens you are going to have to sit on, rise or remain the same AND someone wants to buy them. That someone meanwhile is waiting to see if the proposal is accepted by the dao thus giving the tokens value whereby he would buy them from you to enter the dao.

phew... good luck with all of that.

0
DaggerHashimoto•

Im not sure if this is actually true, but if it is, you should invest what you can afford. If you think you are going to need your money back urgently do pay for bills, maybe you should not invest in the DAO atm. just a thought.

5
chaindataOP•

yup, no one knows if it is actually true or not, the creators of the dao have avoided stating how long the refund takes from day one, others had to find out it takes a minimum 7 days, now someone noted it is also an additional 27 days. This is the problem every time anyone has asked how do we get a refund all those that answer including the creators of the dao never mention any time frames, just that it is easy and be grateful you can.

1
jeffanthonyfds•

Gee I hope those who are urgently working to answer your question keep you up to speed on their latest developments.

1
hatter6822•

Its really not a big deal, in my opinion. If you really need your cash out in a timely manner there will be tons of exchanges willing to exchange Eth for them. You have an exit if you wish, the "split" route isn't intended for the people who want instant divesting.

5
reddyredface•

Although the price of the DAO tokens will probably sit below their real ETH value due to the splitting time

2
Jackieknows•

Don't think so, there will be many happy buyers for 1:100 tokens when they the last days of the creation period had to pay the 1,5:100 rate to buy the tokens

1
alphabatera•

This is long term investment, not speculation. Go buy litecoin or dash for quick profit.

3
morejosh•

Wow... that lack of liquidity is frightening.

3
chaindataOP•

absolutely and more frightening i think is uncertainty. why in the world would anyone buy the tokens from you tomorrow if they could have bought them today. makes zero sense. IF today there was a viable proposal in hand from slock.it that all could see, and if it looked promising maybe. Big maybe but knowing that today they could buy in themselves based on that. Now if slock.it releases their proposal one day after creation day and it looks viable and interesting and looks like it can add value to the dao, that should increase the value of the token and create some demand.

But right now there is nothing even remotely close to that, nothing but mass confusion, uncertainty not even the hint of a solid valuable proposal anywhere on the horizon, so why in the world would anyone buy your tokens immediately after creation day when they could have bought it the day before direct from the sales themselves.

3
VRdad•

Their are always people that are late to the party. Also if people start splitting they will be putting their tokens into temporary limbo. Short supply leads to high pricing.

1
hatter6822•

I disagree. The DAO is basically a distributed venture capitalist organization and most regular VCs have near zero liquidity, meaning that it is common to not be able to cash out your investment until some sort of IPO or long term milestone is reached. Also, if you truly wish to take your Eth and run most exchanges would buy your tokens at the current market value which offers an easy exit route.

Either way you have much better liquidity than in almost any normal organization/fund.

2
elozor•

lack of liquidity? where else can you join a similar new thing and have an out? almost all ipo, ico, ect. are buy in and no way out unless you trade with someone, this isnt an ipo or ico, but you can trade it to someone else within the network...

2
jeffanthonyfds•

Even with Ethereum we had to pay Bitcoin in exchange for a wallet that didn't work until the blockchain entered Frontier. And don't get me started about Augur.

1
worldcoinninja•

how much more liquidity do you need! not only do you own the stock you can sell it and still get rewards. or sell it on an exchange. the lack of understanding is deploring

1†
chaindataOP•

lol that's only half the point, seems to me the details of the refund have been selectively not answered when everyone has been asking how to get a refund, so much so as to not scare of anyone filling the dao with funds. very used car salesmanship. find one answer to any query up to this date, which even mentions the 7 days and now appearing to be additional 27 days. Any time anyone has asked about the refund its always be don't worry about it it's simple you do this then that and boom you get your money back. How many people would not have contributed to making this the biggest crowd sale ever if they knew how long it takes to get your money back? More than half I would say. Maybe the objective is to try to get the biggest crowd sale ever hence purposefully not informing everyone how long it takes, in case they scare them off.

1
worldcoinninja•

Refund? You buying Bennie babies?

1
monzzter221•

Why on earth does a split DAO have to go through a creation phase?

Couldn't those splitting just vote for no creation in the code and an automatic burn if they wanted?

3
TotesMessenger•

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)

2
chaindataOP•

I posted a request in the main sub reddit in the hopes that someone in the know can set the record straight once and for all. I do find it incredibly bizarre that one actually has to almost plead for answers and information in this regard. How difficult would it have been for someone from the company to have laid out the step by step steps and instructions how to get your goddamn eth out of their dao?

edit: let us see how long it takes for this ridiculous question to be answered once and for all:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4isd7o/minimum_34_days_to_remove_your_eth_from_the_dao/

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
VRdad•

I would rather sell tokens on an exchange than split.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
chaindataOP•

Last time I repeat the OP I started.

Can anyone in authority confirm or deny it now will take 34 days to exit the DAO.

I don't care if you think it is "great' or "you should read the white paper" or "i think not" or "maybe"....

The purpose of this post is to get clarity 100% confirmation once and for all, what are the steps in exiting the dao and the time frame to do so.

So far, the horseshit "advice" given so far is irrelevant and does not answer the simple basic question put forth.

0
ThaClown•

Why does it matter? This is a long term INVESTMENT!

It makes no sense at all to put your ETH in the DAO and try to get it out before it even got started...

If you need the money now, that is your fault and bad judgment! Who the hell puts money they need in crypto?

Welcome to the real world where things take time, how long you think it takes to opt out some kind of investment structure at a normal bank and get your money? A month or so is not bad at all.

1
jeniFive•

You dont see the point here.

Even if someone will not split from DAO when the creation period is over they should have simple and open opportunity to get their ether back when they want it. It will grow a confidence in every person that they definitely in control of their DAO tokens.

So far a lot of people dont have that confidence as myself because we havent got presented the full picture with simple words and examples that will step by step show us how to split (ultimate question in internet), how to vote, when the first proposal will come, what should we do when the first proposal will come, will we have a chance to have time to split from DAO if we will WANT to split before the proposal and etc.

And answers to that questions has to be written in very simple language.

So far we only have pieces of talking with curators here or on Slack or in daohub. All this info is not structured and written in not friendly but technical and exciting attitude.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1