Source
r/sysadmin•
bitshifter

Thinking about getting a couple of certs just for the respect/wage factor, anyone else had to do this?

I'm normally not the type of guy to give a shit what people think or say about me, especially co-workers, but I'm coming into this position where the last guy had everything. I was given a chance to move into a "Junior System Administrator" position from a totally different field, and my company was kind enough to give me a chance.

I've tinkered around with home networks, programming, and Linux quite a bit, and I've been able to fill this position not by being intelligent or having papers, but by being tenacious when it comes to figuring things out and learning what I need to. I've written backup scripts for the old Unix server and used Powershell in a handful of places to make things easier. I wrote a C program to pull data off the timeclock because the software that came with it is a giant turd. I've upgraded parts of the network that were still 10baseT and using hubs.

The last guys' answer to nearly everything was, "I'm a Cisco Certified Engineer, for programming, call in a contractor". He took out the Linux DHCP server and bought a whole new 2012 license just for this purpose. And management ate it up... They loved the fact this guy sat on a stack of paper and took no responsibility for anything. And I still get asked regularly, "...You okay Bitshifter? It must be hard without having gone to school... Still figuring things out?"

"Fake it til you make it" has been my mantra since coming into this job, and it has worked out great, but after almost a year and no mention of a raise, and still the raised eyebrows whenever my ability comes into question makes me think I need to get some schooling, even though it seems like a complete waste of time when I already have a job.

I know the topic is a bit touchy, but usually it's a question of wage or benefits and job availability, not respect. It's so strange to me that after a year in this position there's still this image that I'm hanging on by a thread. But I guess it's understandable too, I'm coming from the food industry where what you produce has immediate value, is tangible, and can be defined or questioned easily. I guess I should just get used to it? Or would it make that much of a difference to get CompTIA?

Posted May 27, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

218
cirruseulogySo Many Hats My Neck Hurts•

I'm one of the degreeless, and I've held roles from web application development to systems administration to helpdesk to running a computer shop. (Not in that order. That's backwards.)

I've never felt like I was looked down on or otherwise inferior because I don't have that piece of pretty paper. I've been fortunate in finding employment at places that actually listen to what I have to say, and let me expand my reach beyond the "job description," giving me chances to get more exposure to technologies and the various solutions available in our industry, and the experience that one needs in order to compete without a degree.

That being said, I do look forward to gaining certifications at some point, but not just for the paper. I miss the learning environment, formal or informal, and I want to expand my knowledge further - and if the certifications are a part of that, then that's cool too.

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properfakename•

Certs are really only important or matter at all, on a resume. I have a few certs, that i have never renewed (Checkpoint, Cisco, CISSP) and beyond the interview questions, nothing was ever mentioned ever again.

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storyadminJack of All Trades•

I've had the same experience as well with mine.

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williamfnyJr. Sysadmin•

This is something comes up quite a bit here. The cliff notes are pretty much this. There are three things that make a difference when trying to get a job. Certs, Education and Experience.

Certs: Shows you have some type of understanding of the technology. If nothing else, you were able to pass a test about it. There is a lot of controversy with these as people who do brain dumps just to pass get these but there are people who are either just bad at taking tests or the tests are not based on real world scenarios. These help get you past HR/Management and may or may not help with the technical people.

Education: Shows you have some level of dedication and a willingness to learn. It also helps you to understand a more broad area of knowledge. Personally, I am going for an MBA focused in IT. This shows I have an understanding of not on IT but the business sides of things as well. Again, this should help with HR/Management.

Experience: This is just time you put in. Be it working or on a lab or an internship... Depending on management and HR this may be helpful but this generally is where you start to shine for the technical people.

You don't have to have all three but if you are lacking in one or two, you better make sure you make up for it somewhere else. Personally, I don't have a lot of certs. I have studied for them and I have a good bit of knowledge about them, but I can't afford the tests and my current job won't pay for them. To make up for this, I have a home lab and I have a lot of experience from school and my work history. I'll likely end up in a more managerial position eventually, so the certs may not help me that much in the long run compared to the degree.

2
lordmycal•

Honestly, there are some good reasons out there to pull a linux DHCP server and replace it with a windows one. For example, if you're a windows shop, being able to manage everything from powershell and server manager is nice.

I don't think having a certificate makes you better, but obtaining the knowledge required to get that certificate does. The nice thing about certification is that it acts as a check to see if you really know what you think you know. The downside is that a lot of modern tests are full of bullshit. Nobody is going to configure a windows server as a router and nobody needs to memorize every possible flag for install-windowsfeature, but those might be test questions.

I'm not going to tell you to take the tests, but I think you should get the books and study them like you were going to. Education is the goal -- not having a shiny piece of paper.

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mjmacka•

I have degrees in Political Science and History... so almost degreeless. I hold the following certs: CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+, M$ 70-680/70-685, 70-410 and 70-411.

A+ is a waste of time, Network + is nice, but you may as well get a cisco cert beucase it's worth more to you, Server+ is a waste, Security+ is useful if you work for the government. All of the Microsoft certifications are useful because they force you to learn/understand newer OS stuff and server software. Skip CompTIA.

If you work in corporate IT, certifications are nice to have but not required. If you work at an MSP or as a consultant they are 100% required. Most vendors use certifications as a way to check for technical competency at organizations. While it isn't perfect, that's how most organizational partnerships are work.

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AJL50•

I have held numerous certs through the 90's and 00's. They are impressive to some and not so much to others. IMO, their actual value depends on how you study for them. If you actually go through some coursework to learn enough to pass the tests, you will help yourself along the way. If you simply buy practice tests to prep, not so much. Certs are certainly handy when you go job shopping. Perhaps if you work in an environment where management values certification, they may be willing to spend some money on your education?

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robertito42Security Admin•

I've been told it'll be in my best interests monetarily to get CISSP from my current employer.

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87TLGJack of All Trades•

In my experience, certs can be valuable but only to people who want them. For example, one employer may put a high value on a specific cert, while another employer may not give 2 shits whether you have it or not.

Certs augment actual experience and their value is definitely NOT universal. More certs does not equal more knowledge (in fact, the correllation often goes the other way).

A degree is a different story but that depends on many other variables. For now, just be the best you you can be and you'll do great.

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4rchWindows Admin•

Which industry do you work in? This will help me in giving you a better answer than some that have already applied. The answer is "it depends on which industry you're in"

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sc302Jack of All Trades•

A year...you have been for a year and you think that certs will help you gain respect and increase your wage?

You gain respect with knowledge, this doesn't necessarily come with certs...it comes with dedication and learning.

Always try to figure things out, never admit defeat or get stumped. It is 5:00p and you can't figure it out...stay until the morning if you have to until you do. That is how you gain respect. If it is a business emergency then you call in the support team (or pay for it) otherwise figure it out. A certification won't teach you that. Never state that you stayed x time and expect a pat on the back, just state that you figured it out....if you want to mention it to your boss, so be it but never make a big stink about working late to figure out an issue.

Don't fake it, just make it. You want it to work, make it work...figure it out. Don't fake it, you will look like a fool and get chewed out. People will continue to state things like "You okay Bitshifter? It must be hard without having gone to school... Still figuring things out?" if you don't change the way you are dealing with stuff they will keep thinking low of you....If it is that much of an issue to you, switch jobs.

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bitshifterOP•

if you don't change the way you are dealing with stuff they will keep thinking low of you....

Where exactly did I give the impression that I'm dealing with stuff the wrong way? In fact I handle issues exactly the way you mention. You kind of just went off on a tangent and assumed I'm a whiny bitch or something?

My post revolved around the fact that all that I do is figure things out, and I never ask for a pat on the back. I'm asking if that's ever going to change without certs.

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sc302Jack of All Trades•

People see you as you see yourself and how you carry yourself. I am not calling you a whiny bitch, you just did. Look in everything that I wrote, am I calling you any names? Am I really hinting at it?

I just rewrote what you wrote, you came here thinking that a cert is going to change peoples already preconception of you, if you haven't done this in a year you won't do this in 5.

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bitshifterOP•

I was being facetious. But you didn't answer my question about your projections about how I'm apparently not dealing with stuff well, when I gave no hint of that in my post, even though you simply "rewrote" it.

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sc302Jack of All Trades•

Lets change this around a bit.

You come here asking if your coworkers will view you differently if you get certs. You have a year experience that should have shown that you can and will learn but they still look down on you. Certs will not fix this. If it did, just tell them you have been studying and passed your certs and see if that really means anything...it more than likely will not.

How do you prove yourself, I don't know but you surely aren't doing it now so you need to change the way you are doing things or make some other change. Does that make more sense? I am not putting you down, or saying that you are specifically doing anything wrong, but something has to change in either the way you are carrying yourself, the way you are talking to them, the way you communicate, or quit and work for another company. Why are people looking down on you, is it really because you have no certs or college...or is it because of the lack of knowledge you have? Maybe that is a question that you should ask them...I would ramble off the stuff that I have learned in the year and befuddle them with bs before I let them talk down to me like that, but that is me (this would be carrying yourself/speaking to them differently)....in a business sense this would be telling them to screw off, professionally, without cursing or raising your voice.

Use the knowledge that you have and have gained to talk down to them when they try to talk down to you...have your facts straight before going into a meeting...treat those with respect that treat you with respect, treat users like innocent children and have patience (I am not saying you don't do this now, just my recommendations to follow).

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rapidslowness•

This is a rambling and incoherent post.

You may work in a bad place with an idiot.

You need to work in a few other places to understand how certs don't matter.

Just relax.

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bitshifterOP•

Let's see... Opening, middle, and conclusion? check Paragraph breaks? check Question at the end for those who want to skip? check

0†
rapidslowness•

you need more experience my friend. certs are not that important. its unfortunate you work with a bunch of idiots

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