Fascists driven out of Coburg
redflag.org.au/node/5306
redflag.org.auPosted May 30, 2016, 2:07 AM UTC
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redflag.org.auThere's a lot of shit being peddled here by people who have no idea what they're talking about.
Here's a few key points that people have missed.
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Sue Bolton's Rally against Racism proceeded entirely peacefully. They moved their destination after UPF announced they were turning up, they consulted traders throughout the process, it seems the only ones who didn't know that the destination had changed were TBC/UPF. Which means the system worked. Bolton's group of people were the type to walk behind a banner chanting politely. More like happy clappers than haymaker throwers.
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The "violence" lasted all of about two minutes, tops. It was a quick game of capture the flag initiated by some cheeky ANTIFA alongside a few middle eastern fellows who figured out where the police momentarily weren't. The referees were pretty heavy handed. Despite what that UPF buffoon claims, ANTIFA won.
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Coburg central was back in full swing by 12.30. I went on a multicultural food shopping rampage. I ate the hate away. Traders didn't seem too bothered.
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If UPF / TBC hadn't have tried to stop a peaceful, well intentioned rally - none of this would have happened. Police wouldn't have shut down central Coburg for a couple of hours. End of story, right there.
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Was there, can corroborate your sentiments.
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It's been really poorly handled by the media. Nothing but focus on the clash - Sue's copped a shitload of grief over it when I feel it's completely unfounded. I really feel for her in that respect.
I'm certainly not one on team socialist either. I can't stand the notion.
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Excellent stuff. I've always said Left violence is best violence.
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Violence is the tool of the ignorant
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I was there, this is exactly right. The reason I posted this article is to provide a perspective which actually talks about the whole day rather than the 2 minutes of fighting.
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You know the media have done a really, really shit job of it when Red Flag is the voice of reason. Fuck me, that's scary.
For those who played at home on the day, here's a map of how it went down. Imgur
The black is the peaceful rally against racism, the x are confrontations / scuffles I saw, the circled area is where UPF / TBC were until it was all done and dusted, then throughout the day a handful of them in their revolting regalia went on 'patrol' up and down Sydney road. I encountered some as I was doing my shopping, the conversation was fun. I found a picture of the fellow whose group I had a chat with. Imgur
Despite the fact they had SS and Swastikas on their jackets, they actually seemed like decent people. You know just your average everyday Joe and Joanne. It's sad that they're so ill informed. Education is exactly what they need, which is odd because it's exactly the thing that'll prevent what they're afraid of.
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Was also there, the media are trying to make it sound like a riot but besides maybe a dozen anarchists looking for some fun by trying to throw some fists and steal some flags, there was very little violence.
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it's not my idea of fun it's theirs. Some people like being confrontational but even those guys were tame compared to usual.
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Can my left wing brothers stop wearing guy fawkes masks.
He was a jesuit puppet
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Every mask bought is another dollar in the pockets of Warner Bros, which is a division of Time Warner, which is a multinational media and entertainment conglomerate.
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Identity politics is a part of the issue, this isn't as simple as "peaceful enlightened left" VS "Racist, mean Bogan Right"
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Is this satire? I have never seen more ridiculously biased journalism in my life.
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It is self-declared old-school propaganda. They're not ashamed of it. It is what it is.
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Red Flag is unashamedly the newspaper of Socialist Alternative, one of the many groups there on the day. I think it's important to get a first hand perspective of the day rather than just accepting the "both sides are equally bad" line fed by the mainstream media.
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All Media is bias ideological propaganda, just look at how the murdoch press talks about the elections. Red flag is openly ideological from a socialist perspective.
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Indeed. I share a lot of their ideological positions but I can't stand the way their newsletter insults my intelligence. Nonetheless they keep printing it so someone, somewhere must find it helpful.
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yes....people whose intelligence is insulted by fairfax and murdoch papers find it very useful.
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No, I think those people read The Guardian and perhaps The Conversation. I hate to have to break it to you like this but The Red Flag is basically for teenagers.
Not me, though. When I was a teenager I read the Green Left Weekly. The Red Flag was too lowbrow.
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"RedAustralia" hey...
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And how's uni going mate? Bet ya got a real cool Che poster on your wall.
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*munchmucnhmucnh, slurrrp.....munch munch
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Politics in Australia is fucked, seems you are only allowed to be a draft socialist who denies that there is any issue with Islamic terrorism OR a "far right" horrible smelly racist who believes all sorts of silly shit.
No middle ground, the extremists on both sides have taken over the debate
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I think that He's saying that whatever view you express, it will be attacked by one of two sides as being from the other side.
The middle ground seems to have disappeared from debate despite the fact that the majority actually exist in that space.
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You put that a lot clearer than I did thanks!
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Too easy, I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Clearly what we need to do is commit violence and start a riot in the name of 'calm sensible moderate discussion' to really drive home the point people like us exist..... seems in this media landscape theirs no other way to get any visibility.
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You see this is exactly why this shit shouldn't get so much media coverage. There were a mere handful of people there from both sides, all of whom are frankly totally powerless and completely removed from the political debate. Extremists and their supporters number in the hundreds nationwide versus literally millions of incredibly ordinary Australians who are dull and boring and sensible and not interested in swastikas and red flags.
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How nice of Sue Bolton to cause local traders to lose a day of business because she ignored police advice to cancel the rally and wanted to prove a point at the expense of Coburg.
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Better just run every time they say boo eh?
Gotta stand up some time mate
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So the protest succeeded in ending racism huh? Result.
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Early stages of stopping an australian - Islamic (instead of Jews) modern holocast potentially
It's all got A bit of. Germany 1930s feel to it ..
Well done all.
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Things aren't great, I'll give you that, but comparing modern Australia to 1930s Germany is a bit silly.
Edit: missing n
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How is speaking out against a religious ideology racist? Their methods and agenda aside, it's not a racist thing. In fact, given their claims, religion should be subject to scrutiny at all times.
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How is speaking out against a religious ideology racist? Their methods and agenda aside, it's not a racist thing. In fact, given their claims, religion should be subject to scrutiny at all times.
Where are the violent protests about the behavior of the Catholic Church, where there are documented instances of actual harm to Australian children and an actual religious organisation to point at that systematically covered up these crimes and perverted the course of justice?
When you can explain why these groups so concerned about construction, but not apparently about child rape and conspiracy to conceal it, you might start to have a point.
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Islam has a far bigger problem with child molestation that the Catholic Church does, and that's ignoring the human rights abuses, intolerance, terrorism, militant groups, etc. that are created and enabled by Islam. Even ignoring all of that, people who bring the backwards culture of Islamic countries to Australia, and refuse to assimilate, are more of a threat to Australians than the Catholic Church is. And by the way, culture, like religion, is not the same as race.
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Islam has a far bigger problem with child molestation that the Catholic Church does
Ok! Where's the statistics showing that this is the case in Australia?
Even ignoring all of that, people who bring the backwards culture of Islamic countries to Australia, and refuse to assimilate, are more of a threat to Australians than the Catholic Church is.
Let's step away from Islam for a second and go back to 2006 (EDIT: It was 1996, apparently, my bad!):
I and most Australians want our immigration policy radically reviewed and that of multiculturalism abolished. I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40 per cent of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate. Of course, I will be called racist but, if I can invite whom I want into my home, then I should have the right to have a say in who comes into my country. A truly multicultural country can never be strong or united.](http://australianpolitics.com/1996/09/10/pauline-hanson-maiden-speech.html)
That's Pauline Hanson's maiden Parliamentary speech, talking about Asian migration. I strongly suspect that you're not worried about the 'Asian Invasion', and that you're not typing this using a Chinese-to-English translator from your 'Asian ghetto'.
Personally, I think it's sad that you think that Australian culture is so weak that it needs valiant protection; that it's not strong enough to stand on its own two feet and persuade people of its own merits.
...culture, like religion, is not the same as race.
Culture wasn't mentioned in my post, so I'm not totally sure what point you're trying to make here. Are we listing things that aren't the same as race?
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I do have issues with those too. As I said, all religion should be subject to scrutiny.
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There's dozens of them getting around with swastika patches, SS badges.. it's pretty rough. Their banner on the day said "no more refugees." I'm by no means a supporter of team socialism, I infact have copped a karma pasting every time I criticise them, but for all intents and purposes they mean well. Some in TBC/UPF mean for people to end up in ovens.
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I've never encountered a person who has a problem with the large gathering at the Albanian festival despite that most of them are muslim. Or say anything about them when they all moved here. No one said a word despite that some still basically half arrange marriages, send off their daughters for genital mutilation in Hoppers Crossing or avoid pork. I can only conclude it's because they are white, frequently blonde and dress like westerners.
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These racists don't have any idea what Islam is, except for the fact that brown people follow it. And they didn't come out on the streets of Coburg for an intellectual and civil debate on theology.
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Marxist drivel.
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Fuck off this isn't r/australia
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Weekend a bit rough?
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No i don't want tripe like redflag turning r/mel into an environment where people quoting osama bin Laden are upvoted and have a narrative forced onto them each time they visit the subreddit.
Even your account is pushing an agenda so fuck off.
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Says the bloke moderating multiple circlejerk subreddits
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The point of a circlejerk subreddit is to make fun of the circlejerk on other subs, like this one and r/australia. It's not about pushing agendas, it's the opposite lol
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I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/subredditdrama] One user in /r/melbourne complains about anti-fascist posts. Turns out he is hiding a dark secret
^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)
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And the Socialist Alliance are, of course, involved.
Both sides are as bad as each other. Coburg isn't rife with racial or religious bigotry and strife til the fascist/anti-fascist lots bus in from surrounding areas to have their fun.
Socialist Alternative were the source of the counter biffo
Socialist Alliance is a different group and a lot tamer
Sue Bolton, the councillor from Moreland who co-organised the anti-racism rally, is a Socialist Alliance member.
In other words, you lot showed up for a punchup. Again, both sides are at fault here - you lot show up in a fairly gentrified suburb where there's not a massive amount of racial strife and fighting, causing problems, before hopping on the tram and leaving a gigantic mess for the residents to deal with after.
You don't bloody riot in Footscray, Sunshine, Reservoir, or even Flemington, do you. It's always somewhere comfortable, like Brunswick, the CBD or Coburg.
PS: Mods - whoops, didn't realise facebook links to politician's campaign sites would be filtered earlier :(
Never said it was a good idea, just if you're going to call out groups call out the right ones
UPF and what not are about 5 or 6 dozen moronic bogans, best just to tell them to piss off and ignore them rather than feed attention like the violence does
Sue Bolten called for a demo in her local area, and fascist racist fuckwits came from all across Victoria to counter protest. Do you think there would be any situation involving racist thugs organising on the streets that would end peacefully? Where ever UPF organise there will be violence, and the anti-fascists are doing a service by hindering their mobility and making it impossible for the racists to harass local businesses and residents.
And many many anti-racist demonstrators were locals.
You are quite right, but you're missing the point. The local residents and businesses didn't want the demo. They didn't 'organise on the streets' spontaneously, they did so in response.
You guys beat the shit out of each other using flagpoles in a primary school in a suburb that didn't want either of you lot there.
The UPF were there to march down Sydney Road and disrupt Sue Bolton's anti-racism rally using "fear and terror" (their words, not mine). If it weren't for the large antifascist demonstration, which included many members of the local community, the UPF would have succeeded. This was an act of community self defense - why are you so keen to blame anyone but the far right fascists that wanted to shut down an anti-racism rally? Try to look at the broader dynamics at play here, not the 2 minutes of fighting that went on the front page of the Herald Sun.
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If Sue Bolton had not arranged an anti-racism rally against the wishes of residents and businesses in the area, who were specificially concerned about possible violence, the fascist/racist/right-wing/whatever contingent of idiots wouldn't have shown up. If they didn't start talking about picking fights and sowing 'fear and terror', you wouldn't have hardline leftists/anarchists/antifascists contingents of idiots showing up for a "counter biffo".
There is no excuse for the behaviour of the far right fascists. There is no excuse for the far left/anarchist contingent's behaviour either. The fundamental fact of the matter is that residents don't want random outsiders showing up to beat each other up with steel flagpoles in their primary school.
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independent anarchists were the ones fighting/arrested, no members of SAlt were fighting.
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Antifa were there too but it was mostly Socialist Alternative drongos in Guy Fawkes masks running around the police lines
Let's be clear, there were a lot of groups involved in the antifascist demonstration including Socialist Alternative, No Room For Racism, the anarchist black bloc, local community groups, and more. Socialist Alternative to not wear masks to rallies, that is part of the anarchist black bloc tactic.
the guys in Guy Fawkes masks are antifa members not SAlt members.
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The rally was never about challenging racism in Coburg, Sue Bolten called for a peaceful demonstration to promote multi culturalism and racist fuckwits called for a counter protest to promote their racism. The anti racist protesters went to let the fascists know that their shit wouldn't be tolerated in Coburg or anywhere. It wasn't fun, confronting fascists is never fun, but we have to confront them to let them know that they'll always lose in Melbourne. Putting your head in the sand and pretending these racists don't exist never helps.
Not much to say that I haven't replied to you elsewhere, and I'm not sure why you pulled this out to this level (visibility?), but:
The anti-racist rally was run first, and the racists showed up in response.
This post is, I think, the only one where I've not directly mentioned that the racists' behaviour was appalling, and I'm still arguing about why the anti-Islam behaviour is wrong down the thread in the response to a comment that has been downvoted below visibility (rightly so, it's repugnant).
I have a particular disgust for organised racism, so it's an issue I talk a lot about.
being against racism and actually doing something about racism are two different things. Disagreeing with the fascists doesn't stop them.
Does shouting at them a lot and hitting them with poles work?